“He wouldn’t be where he is if I hadn’t sacrificed my career”

[BooFuckingHoo2]

I am expecting a flaming for this .

AIBU to think this is often untrue? I know many men with stay at home wives and kids who, in all honesty, whilst happy to have kids (because the wife does all the wifework) would probably have been equally happy with either no kids or extensive wraparound childcare and an equally high earning wife.

I often see it trotted out on here “I sacrificed my career to look after our children” - but the for the majority of women (aside from some exceptions e.g. husband working abroad) I’m sure it was a welcome choice and not something they were strong armed into. In my experience (unless childcare costs eclipse the wife’s salary) the husband is usually indifferent (aside from the wankers who want a trophy wife) as to whether the wife works or not.

Equally “he wouldn’t be where he is in his career if it wasn’t for me”. I’m sure there’s a small minority of women who’ve accelerated their husbands career but I think for most, they’d have been the same with or without their wife, although granted possibly with no children or higher childcare costs.

AIBU?

And @jillypill - why should I share what I do? You were the one who made a comment about society a personal one, not me!

well, if you care to tell me about your life in detail, I can tell you where you are relying on people in inflexible work to make your life easier.

Oh so this wasn't addressed to me? 🤣🤣

@jillypill - “ In what way is my flexibility at the expense of someone else?” You asked the question - how can I answer your specific and self-centred question all about yourself without knowing more about you? 🤣🤣

I don't understand what you are confused about

You were the one who made a comment about society a personal one, not me!

Either you did direct things at me personally or you didn't

In what way is my flexibility at the expense of someone else?

which was in response to

Your flexibility and anybody else’s - or are you so self-centred that you thought I was only talking about your flexibility?

I mean you could just go back & read your posts..

Nursery fees of £2K a month for 8-6

I am outraged on your behalf! How do they ever justify this. That’s for two kids so £1k each for full time hours. Let’s say a class of 20, so £20k a month.. bonkers. People should start doing nursery in their homes or something because I bet a lot of people would have four kids all day for half that rate or £2k a month total.

@Walkaround

And of course, a lot of these people with more inflexible jobs are supporting and subsidising and working around the lifestyles of the better paid, enabling them to be more flexible at the expense of the less well off - because to pay them fairly and give them the same flexibility would make it too expensive and difficult for the more well paid to have the flexibility they expect. Your flexibility will always come at someone’s expense at some point down the line.

Yes please, @jillypill, do reread my posts properly, rather than selectively quoting and mixing and matching different posts. This is the post you appear to think was addressed to you personally. Why?

@BubblyBarbara

Nursery fees of £2K a month for 8-6

I am outraged on your behalf! How do they ever justify this. That’s for two kids so £1k each for full time hours. Let’s say a class of 20, so £20k a month.. bonkers. People should start doing nursery in their homes or something because I bet a lot of people would have four kids all day for half that rate or £2k a month total.

Let’s say for 20 kids they need 10 staff paid full-time (to include cover for holidays and to include qualified childcare staff, caterers, cleaning staff, maintenance staff, admin staff), including pensions etc. Plus rent, heat, electricity, maintenance, insurance. Plus food. Plus furniture and equipment. That’s where your 20,000 per month goes.

Because you posted this after I seeked clarification

Your flexibility and anybody else’s - or are you so self-centred that you thought I was only talking about your flexibility?

Who is this your in this post?

[quote Walkaround]@jillypill - I’m not sure why you think I am. I’m laying it at everyone’s door.[/quote]
@jillypill - bollocks. I posted this first. You then weirdly ignored that and asked if I was talking about you and I pointed out I was talking about everyone, which by definition would have to include you.

I didn't weirdly ignore anything, not every post requires a response.

Its quite amusing watching you tie yourself in knots. No need to stress & swear.

@jillypill - it’s quite amusing to watch you opt for the last resort of the person who has nothing to say, so announces to the world that they have won the argument and they know better what someone meant than the person who said it.

🥱 must do better @Walkaround

Yes, you must, @jillypill. Better luck next time.

announces to the world

Now who's self centred! I don't think anyone is reading this thread anymore. I'll leave you to bicker with yourself & wish you a better 2021, sounds like you need it! 😘

I’m sure you’d love it if nobody ever looked at the thread again, @jillypill. I would too, if I were you. 😘

Oh, it is fun being childish.

I have recently qualified into a professional career (few years in) and it would be impossible to do that and be a good parent to young children at the same time. Those who say they can have likely over looked their children’s emotional needs and dumped them in nursery or with a nanny full time and then not given them much attention when they arrive home at night as too tired or distracted. Harsh but true.
The role of a parent to young children or any children simply isn’t valued enough in society.

I think this whole conversation is just fucked up! So children should just be fitted around 'a career' should they. No. Two adults decided to have a child/children , those children need love, consistency and adults who are mentally well. Sadly the patriarchal capitalist culture dosen't care about children's needs it just cares about money. Neither parent should have to make a choice, but usually one does, between money and their children's needs and that's still most often the women. That's still a fortunate choice to have cause some jobs are so badly paid there is no choice and both parents have to work every hour that they can or usually a single mum, so really, do we really need to have another go at SAHM so called? V's working mum's?

I've always worked, but was lucky enough to take a very part time job when we moved for DH's career and the kids were small.
I couldn't say that I ever sacrificed my career for DH's as I just didn't find anything interesting or motivating enough to go for it after my degree and when I was young, so it was easier to let DH go for it as he was really motivated.
Now I do have a career, it's competitive and something that will keep me engaged until retirement.
The only thing I do feel a pang about is that I'll never earn enough to let DH kick back a bit, as he is starting to get jaded and I'll just never be at that level of expertise in my job, as I started in my early forties.
It would be nice to be able to support him as he supported us in the early days of our family.

@BubblyBarbara

Nursery fees of £2K a month for 8-6

I am outraged on your behalf! How do they ever justify this. That’s for two kids so £1k each for full time hours. Let’s say a class of 20, so £20k a month.. bonkers. People should start doing nursery in their homes or something because I bet a lot of people would have four kids all day for half that rate or £2k a month total.

Nope. Just under £100 per day per child so c£4K a month.

@Lurcherloves

I have recently qualified into a professional career (few years in) and it would be impossible to do that and be a good parent to young children at the same time. Those who say they can have likely over looked their children’s emotional needs and dumped them in nursery or with a nanny full time and then not given them much attention when they arrive home at night as too tired or distracted. Harsh but true. The role of a parent to young children or any children simply isn’t valued enough in society.

What a load of crap and a nasty stick to beat working parents with.

Also, how many men have been asked, how are you finding being back at work and balancing childcare? Men tend to get asked how they are sleeping. When a man mentions his partner returning to work after mat leave, are they really ever asked how they're finding the childcare?!!!
How many women are greeted with "ah what a great mum" when they are walking around with little ones? My OH gets it all the time. He IS a great dad but is only doing what dozens of women get no recognition from strangers for
My husband found the same. We did shared parental leave and he used to get really annoyed at the ridiculous praise coming his way for being a hands on dad. When he went part time the same thing happened. It's best not to get him started on the memes/jokes about dads 'babysitting' or 'daddy daycare' or dads being incompetent.

You're absolutely right that nobody says to dads 'how are you finding being back at work now you have a child... are you managing with childcare'. The assumption is that men don't need to trouble themselves with the family they created.

It's why I'm irritated at anything promoting the idea that poor men can't manage their jobs and the home, poor men must always be genuinely working long hours and couldn't possibly be pissing around at work to avoid bedtime, poor men have absolute no ability to take a day off when the children are poorly, poor men can't possibly take their child to a medical appointment, poor men need women to do all of this because they simply couldn't manage all the basic elements of parenting.

Lola, I largely agree with your post above. However, would the patterns you have described not suggest that if a SAHW was, in fact, to claim -
“He wouldn’t be where he is if I hadn’t sacrificed my career”

• well, would she not just be telling it as it is?

Whether, you think women SHOULD be facilitating their husband’s careers is another matter. But, I’m not sure how it’s possible to be aggravated about facilitated / successful men in the workplace, yet at the same time, arguing that having a SAHW is irrelevant or plays no part in the DH’s success. This strikes me as a contradiction in terms.

Even in the 1980s when we had three children under 4 and both worked full time it was similar - not easy then and not easy now for both men and women. We decided before we married my career would come first as I was likely to earn more as a lawyer than he as a teacher but in the end neither of us had to give up full time work. Even so childcare from when the babies were 2 weeks old was very very expensive and remains so today for those in that position.

Most professional couples can afford full time childcare, even the £2k plus a month per baby which has been paid in this family - about £4k a month but coming out of two full time professional salaries (you do get £4k back from the state I think and/or the minor childcare vouchers but that is as nothing to you £24k of cost or £12k per each in the couple or £20k of before tax income each. If you are on £100k as a lawyer in London then it still just about works today as it did in 1985 when I had the same job but it is certainly expensive for men and for women.

I wonder how many of there women aspired to marry high earners? A man who has a good job and therefore she'd always be provided for and financially looked after. I think many gave up their careers willingly.