“He wouldn’t be where he is if I hadn’t sacrificed my career”

[BooFuckingHoo2]

I am expecting a flaming for this .

AIBU to think this is often untrue? I know many men with stay at home wives and kids who, in all honesty, whilst happy to have kids (because the wife does all the wifework) would probably have been equally happy with either no kids or extensive wraparound childcare and an equally high earning wife.

I often see it trotted out on here “I sacrificed my career to look after our children” - but the for the majority of women (aside from some exceptions e.g. husband working abroad) I’m sure it was a welcome choice and not something they were strong armed into. In my experience (unless childcare costs eclipse the wife’s salary) the husband is usually indifferent (aside from the wankers who want a trophy wife) as to whether the wife works or not.

Equally “he wouldn’t be where he is in his career if it wasn’t for me”. I’m sure there’s a small minority of women who’ve accelerated their husbands career but I think for most, they’d have been the same with or without their wife, although granted possibly with no children or higher childcare costs.

AIBU?

RUOKHon
You're right. There isn't one way to do things. Life is complicated and children are complicated.
DH and I originally both planned to work full time but have both been part time and both been full time as life required.

I think it would be better if people owned the decisions they make rather than tie themselves in knots. Being a SAHP is a tough gig and one that's valid, so why get tied in knots about how husband's fairly standard managerial role simply wouldn't be possible without someone at home / talk of sacrificing a career in situations where it's 'I didn't like my job'. It seems quite counterproductive because it continues this idea that men folk have big important jobs that can't be done with a family, and that the only acceptable reasons to be a SAHP is because it helps the men be big important men folk (therefore further reducing women's contribution to the home to the impact it has on making life a bit easier for men).
What's wrong with 'I wanted to be a SAHP'?

Ah, the poor men indeed.

@LolaSmiles but sadly the truth is certain career path do require working hours that are not exactly family friendly. That is an unfortunate fact

@lolasmiles I think you will find that most SAHM will tell you they wanted to be one AND they play an important role in family life which is equally as important as the financial earner.

@LolaSmiles I agree!

I remember my late dad who was lovely making the comment he wasn't that bothered about having children but went along with my mum who really wanted them. I think the driving force is v often women

Totally agree, however without us wanting children the human species would die out and there wouldn’t be any more men! Dynamics have ended up as they are for a reason. We want children, the men tolerate it as long as they get their balls drained every now and then, humanity rolls on.

@LolaSmiles

'I wanted to be a SAHP'?

Absolutely nothing is wrong with it. Nothing at all. But society can make let’s face it, women ‘people’ feel like they’re lazy or un ambitious, stupid & naive even - to not work outside the home.

@lolasmiles personally I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to be a SAHM just because you want to.

It seems quite counterproductive because it continues this idea that men folk have big important jobs that can't be done with a family, and that the only acceptable reasons to be a SAHP is because it helps the men be big important men folk

Again, I don’t think your statement is wrong, but my counter to it would be that, because of the pay gap, so often women are paid less generally, and sometimes even specifically for the same job as a man. So if it comes to a decision about whose career takes a step back, it is naturally going to make sense for it to be the lower earner. And in the majority of cases, that will be the woman.

But doesn't the pay gap exist in some part because of women choosing to step back, down or out after having dc?

I think you will find that most SAHM will tell you they wanted to be one yes that’s essentially the point I’ve made.

All the bluster about he so important, he can’t miss a deadline, it’s froth to explain and add interest to why the woman became a housewife

My XH worked shifts, so was either at work from 7am or there until 10pm, including weekends. He also moved around quite a bit, including a stint living away from us for a year when the DCs were young.

Obviously if he'd never had or wanted children, his life would have been much the same with or without me. However, once there are DC in the mix, its disingenuous to say that a mum of 3 young DCs could easily go back to work full time and be as successful as a childless counterpart.

XH currently works abroad, with no concern about who's looking after his DC (spoiler alert, its me 24/7) and my current DP has also benefitted from his ex and her family pitching in whenever he works abroad (which was about 25% of his time up until CV19).

There's no way I could do his job or my XH's job and earn the huge salaries they do, because there just isn't the available or affordable childcare for 3 DCs on varying shift patterns throughout the week/month including weeks at a time in another country. So yes, the men in my life have most definitely benefitted from the fact that my work is low paid, flexible and home-centred.

I thought younger women were outearning men.

I have two disabled children and I have definitely had to sacrifice my career so I can be first for all the emergencies and day to day issue that entails.
I have tried to work part time throughout but there have been 5 years on and off where I just couldn't, and I suspect without working from home next year I might have to do it again as they enter their GCSE year. But before lockdown I had just managed to get a work from home job which means I am in for their taxis which the La insist I have to be in for, well at least an adult has to be in for, but I have failed to employ someone who will work 30 minutes 3 days a week, 10 minutes in the morning and 20 in the afternoon. They don't actually need care once home so long as no one puts any demands on them.
Husband has had to sacrifice family time by working away from home.
I have just started this year to work for myself which is a lot more money but I am still after 20 years still on the bottom rung of my career.

Of course there will be people who are happy to not work but in my experience they are
Few and far between.

misses point of thread but wants to know how everyone met these high earning men

I work with succesful men and women. What I have noticed is that the women who have families often tend to have one, maybe two children at most. Many of the men at the same level frequently have a much larger number of children and it doesnt seem to impact them that much career wise whereas I cant think of a single woman I know in their position who has that many children not one. The fact is that there is a limited amount of time, and mental energy alloted to anyone. If a couple decide one person is going to focus on their career and the other is going to focus more on te children there is nothing necessarily wrong with that - it might be mutually beneficial to both and many women are happy to stay home. But it is stupid to deny that their doing so (or even if they still work, they're taking on more childcare responsibilities/mental load) has not benefited the man.

We Met at uni, he was a skint student.

@gypsywater

* misses point of thread but wants to know how everyone met these high earning men *

at work, being high earning too

@HavelockVetinari

I see quite a lot of blokes who "wish she'd work/work full time" BUT have zero intention of picking up the childcare slack. Without exception I'd asked them "ok, so if your wife worked FT and one of the DC was unwell, would you share half the last-minute days off? And will you do 50% of school/nursery pick-ups and drop-offs?" only to be told that "that's different - children need their mothers more".

Loads of men want their wives to earn more, so long as there is zero impact on their own lifestyles.

This! In the pandemic the amount of women who cited childcare and homeschooling as stressor and not one man! Not one! Men cited isolation from the workplace and not having support from colleagues as their stressors.

This is working parents... women were taking up all the slack.. it is also true of carding for elderly parents and in laws, you do get the odd man but they tend to be single.

My H says clearly he could not do his job if I did what I wanted to be doing work wise. He needs to travel randomly (outside Covid) with little notice, as well as weekly. We'd need a live in nanny, or two, to make it work. We have neither the cash nor space for that.

He's actually said we can't get divorced because he couldn't cope with managing the day to day lives of the kids.

He also is not good socially and I've managed a lot of the social aspect of his job when we were abroad.

I have definitely sacrificed my career - and pension and future income potential. I'm currently doing part time study so I can hopefully work again.

I completely resent it to be honest.

I had absolutely no idea the full impact over the long term that being at home with the kids would have on me. Nobody told me, I'd not read Mumsnet until well after that decision was enacted and it's hard to know what you don't know and can't see or hear.

I will be doing everything in my control to make sure DD doesn't do this and that DS never expects his wife/female partner (if he has one) to give up her work to support him. And why.

On reflection No I’ll not be fucking off. Tell me without swearing what you object to in my post
Can you do that? @heseesyouwhenyouaresleeping

But doesn't the pay gap exist in some part because of women choosing to step back, down or out after having dc

Is that the reason?

Or is it because bosses assume that’s what women will do, and so preemptively pay them less?

It’s possibly an attitudinal hangover from the not-so-distant past when women weren’t allowed to work after they got married and so were never properly valued.

To my knowledge there’s never been a time when women were consistently paid the same as men but then an adjustment downwards was needed to account for the fact that loads of women were dropping out of the workforce to sit on their lazy, unambitious arses.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

I think you will find that most SAHM will tell you they wanted to be one yes that’s essentially the point I’ve made.

All the bluster about he so important, he can’t miss a deadline, it’s froth to explain and add interest to why the woman became a housewife

Most SAHMs will highly value their role for its own sake and also because it is supportive of their partners career and therefore their earning potential as a couple. How can you even claim it isn't?