Am I being unreasonable to expect people with dogs to invite us round?

[alexandre]

My DD is terrified of dogs and it is a completely irrational fear that I can't do anything about. Most people we know have dogs including nearly everyone in her class. One mum is really understanding and puts the dog in a pen in the garden for the duration of DD's visit but other people just don't invite her round ever - when I ask her to ask the other children why they never ask her to play they say it's because she is afraid of the dogs. The same people often call us asking if we can have their kids round, collect them from school etc. but they never invite DD back, even her best friend! The same applies to some of our friends - they expect to be invited but never invite us back because of the dog terror. If I stop inviting them we don't see them at all.

At first I was upset, now I am just annoyed with everyone and annoyed with my daughter as well for not getting over her fear although I do understand how she feels.

Is it unreasonable to expect dog owners to put their dog in a separate part of the house for an hour or two if a visitor is really petrified?

I think the neediness of dogs engenders guilt in their owners

miobombino - you're right. But reality is, not everyone manages to do this. Some dogs also have huge separation anxiety - maybe they shouldn't if they know their place and are secure in it, but nevertherless it happens. I would imagine it happens quite a lot with rescue pooches.

my mums rescue dog is great. so placid, well behaved and affectionate. she has to be shut away though when we visit because their other dog is so vicious and mum wont separate them. (i have no problem with rescue dog at all, she's lovely).

mum has told me how the other dog has bitten her so many times "oh but its not his fault, he was lying on the sofa with me and i moved my legs"

ok mum.

we cant visit for long because by her own admission, demon dog would attack my kids and it simply unfair to lock demon dog away.

come on mum...its an animal, these are your grandchildren!

I would shut my dog away if someone (adult or child) came round who was scared of dogs. I was petrified of dogs as a child, after being bitten, and wouldn't go someone's house if i knew they had one.

But at the same time, I'd be rather reluctant to do so. Mine is a bouncy, excitable dog who hates being shut away. He would spend the while time barking, whining, and throwing himself at doors and walls, scartching them in the process. I think this would seem very scary to someone who was frightened of dogs. And then ds would undoubtedly open the door to let him out anyway. Our old house it was so open plan (and small) that there was nowhere else to put the dogs.

It may be that people with dogs don't invite your dd round because they don't want to put you in an awkward position where you feel obliged to be polite and say yes but dd would be really scared. I have a relative who is scared of dogs who has always asked if it is Ok that we just visit them rather than they come to us.

YANBU to expect your friends to show some courtesy by putting their dogs in another room while your daughter is around - SHORT TERM

But YABU if you don't take steps to encourage your daughter to get over her fear of dogs, so that people don't have to make exceptions for her for ever.

Any dog owner who allows their dog to jump up at people in the street and terrorise strangers (even if just from exuberance) are not responsible dog owners, full stop.

If my dog jumped up at someone at home then she would be told off and removed, therefore if someone came round and she was relegated to another room etc she would see this as a punishment.

The issue here isn't dogs on streets etc it is dogs within their own home and I don't think you can expect people to remove their dogs unless they are actually doing something that is making the child more scared or if you can't control them. Punishing them for just being there is not fair - in that respect it is the child that has the problem. I would not dream of taking my dog to a friend's house if they were scared of her though; mutual respect and all that jazz.

Unless you own or have owned dogs you will never understand how human their emotions can be sometimes. we see her as part of our family, love me; love my dog!!

My dog knows she plays 2nd fiddle to all humans and if necessary I would remove her on a 'one off' but if your child is a regular visitor then it is only fair to both dog and child to teach her to learn to deal with her fear.

As a dog lover, I am still shocked that anyone would keep a dog that bites. There is just no way I would have a dog that I didn't trust around my children, let alone anyone elses. Where do you draw the line? When a 'little nip' becomes a grab for the throat? Totally irresponsible to keep animals that cannot be trusted around people IMO. My dog didn't even bite a burglar who had broken into my previous home. She scared the crap out of him, had him pinned into a corner with her teeth bared, but even in that situation, did not bite, and I was so proud of her.

That's really reassuring Rach, I've always thought our dog would probably direct a burglar to the valuables ...

She's overtly protective of the children though and growled at a guy that started talking to my dd the other day when she was walking her , poor bloke only wanted directions!

Funnily enough, I've just this morning had a friend of ds2's round who is very wary of dogs. I always put my dog into his crate when this friend is round. In fact, I usually crate my dog when we have other people's children around because then I know for certain that nothing untoward will happen.

This morning things were a bit different because ds2 and friend came for a walk in the woods with me and dog. Lo and behold, the boy who was so nervous of my dog became much more confident, and really enjoyed throwing sticks for dog.

It seems he found it very much easier to cope with the dog out in the open. Perhaps you could choose a friend with a gentle, quiet dog and go for a walk together??

My dog barked at a policeman on a night walk. I was walking her over the railway bridge and he was hidden just out of view. It made me feel safer, tbh, and the policeman didn't mind, as she was just doing her job. His female colleague then came round the corner and didn't get barked at, which she thought was hilarious. A dog can be protective without being vicious.

We still haven't established where the OP lives. If you are near me (Somerset) you would be welcome to join us on a walk.

I do not think it is unreasonable to put a dog away in another part of the house for a short while - it can be for the dog's sake as well not to be hassled by kids running round!! No dog is 100% safe all the time!

I have read this with interest - my ds (nearly 6) is terrified of dogs as my parents insisted on letting their insane untrained Jack Russell continually bark and jump at him when he was a baby (let him "sniff", he wants to play etc), generally insisting that "ds had better get used to it". Father lets it run free and jump/bite kids on the fields/park - "ooh, he's alright, he only nips them when he's playing". Wouldn't listen to me or dp at all when we said we didn't trust it. (It has bitten them as well).
They never trained it as they couldn't be bothered/didn't have time as they were working. This dog rips toys to shreds if the toy has a face on.
My mother encourages it and thinks it's cute; and used to ask me "have you got any old/current toys of ds's for the dog to rip up", if she hadn't bought any that week from a car boot.
A) No chance - I did not buy them for a dog to slobber over and destroy.
and B) My ds had a face and a "squeaky" cry. The dog was far too interested in his face all the time. My mother thought it was funny that "the dog wanted to rag baby".
I certainly didn't and neither did dp. DS found it least funny of all of us.
(They also used to let the dog chew/play with toys they'd bought/found, then give them to ds as presents, but that's another story!!)
Dog jumped up and barked and growled at ds for crying / squealing at about 6mths old when I was holding him in their house. They blamed DS for making a noise. That was the last straw - and we told them in future they keep it away or we don't go round. They shut it in another room when we went round after that, but continually whinged and made snide comments that "I had made ds scared" etc, "it's my fault", "poor dog being shut away because of a baby" etc - no, your selfishness at forcing the dog on him did". They wouldn't come to our house as they "can't leave the dog for more than 2 hrs". (They only live a mile away and they went out to work all day at the time - and it's in kennels when they go on holiday for 2 weeks). Not the dog's fault at all - it's my parents fault for not training it. It would have been a nice dog with normal owners. We don't see my parents anymore - this being just one of many reasons - they have no respect for anything all round, not least because ds doesn't want the dog near him and we don't want him getting bitten.
DS is now terrified of all dogs, DD is OK - she has never been near it, and neither of them will again as long as I am breathing.

Friend has asked us to go round and play at their house - can't go as they have dogs and don't want to ask them to put them outside etc, even though they don't mind - ds will freak at just seeing them there. We went once before and had to leave - ds on edge, me stressed cos he was etc, even though dogs didn't bother us. So we lose out all round now.

We walked past 2 Akitas yesterday (on leads and muzzled, so I knew they couldn't "eat" us if even if they wanted to!) (gorgeous but huge show dogs) - I said ooh, look at those lovely furry doggies etc. Both kids thought they were "nice" and admired them, but didn't get too close. Thought "great, that went well". Then we saw 2 tiny terriers further up the street and ds started clinging to me, which dd picked up on and she was scared of them as well. Not good!!
I would love to take them to Crufts next year to "Discover Dogs", but ds would go bananas!! I used to have dogs (yes, they were trained!!) at one time, so I know the "dangers" etc and I know how to approach dogs - but I am also nervous now because of what my mother's dog did. I don't know the answer - and I'm not going to force him to "get over it" - all I can do is "encourage him" to look at or be near dogs. (Doesn't help when we can't go in the park or down the street most days without random dogs jumping and barking at him though). DD has a rabbit that runs free at her nursery, so she isn't too bad and likes animals in general.

That's a terrible story Charlene, your parents should be ashamed to have brought a dog up like that, no excuses, makes me angry as peole like that give the rest of us a bad name - If you live near me, I would help your ds.

I am generally far more wary of the small Jack Russell types as I have found them less predictable and more apt to nip.

I always do it with either footballs in the garden or walks and balls to throw too. Dogs are far less intimidating to scared dcs in the open and mine is so daft that they always end up laughing at her silly antics.

Oh Charlene ... thats awful. Sorry your parents have messed up your DS, and the dog too.

YANBU. I love dogs, always had dogs, have always put my dogs out, whether people are scared of them or not!! For those who say the OP is unreasonable WTF? It is simply good manners to keep dogs away from visitors. Yes, some of my friends dont mind being slobbered over by an over excited dog and in that case i usually let the dog say hello and then put him out. Our old dogs used to get to stay in the room so long as they behaved, but more often than not were put outside.

There is no way i would not put my dog outside or in his cage if i were having children around my house. Not because he is a biter, he so isnt, but he is excitable and has annoyingly long and fast growing claws. This little dog (terrier x) is amazing with my DD, im stunned at how good he is, but i would never trust him 100% for the simple reason that he IS A DOG!

Encouraging a dog to rip the face off toys

That's very scary

Thanks guys - I was always made to feel as though I was a complete cow for keeping my kids away from the dog and "making a fuss"/"being funny about it"!!
And I still would be getting the "guilt trip" and pressure if I was speaking to them. It means a lot to know me and dp are right on this one!!

Even a small terrier can give a very nasty nip, and your parents' dog sounds out of control, Charlene. I would NEVER leave any child alone with this dog. I say this a dog owner. Terrier are unfortunately bred to bite and hold on- rats, rabbits, badgers, etc... child's hand/ face- what's the difference? Your parents are deluding themselves if they find this behaviour cute- it is just instinctive, and they could do with making him work- rat catching, to get it out of his system.

yanbu

Duchesse - yes, good idea - they wouldn't though - "too much hassle". They just let it do as it pleases and think it's funny, and say "ha ha Mad jack, isn't he funny??". My gran had to go to hospital as it scratched her legs with dirty claws by jumping up and she got an infected ulcer from it that wouldn't heal. And they blamed her for it, said she had "caused a fuss over it", and still insisted on taking it into her house every time they visited. (Gran was house/chair bound and dying of cancer / in agony etc at the time, and they STILL let it jump all over her) Sorry for hijack alexandre but it still makes me fume after all this time !!

Charlene your poor Gran - how nasty. I'm really shocked at that.

my ds was savagely bitten on his face by his grandparents dog. He was 3.He is scarred now.

He did nothing to the dog apart from walk past it.

both him and dd1 were petrified of dogs for a long time.

I too am shocked and saddened by some of the attitudes on here.

Charlene i have every sympathy with you. Some pet owners are very selfish.

My sil promised to come and look after our children for 2 days while we are away. Then, after we had booked, she rang up and said that she had just taken possession of a Jack Russell and did we mind if the dog came too, to our house!

No I don't want my children subjected to a strange dog in their own home

No I don't want un-housetrained dog in my house

Especially when I'm not there.

My mother has agreed to come instead, and can be trusted not to bring any pets.

A lot of posters appear to think it is pretty straightforward to encourage a child to get over a fear of dogs. My DD has a fear of moving things (except people). This is quite difficult to overcome. She is 3 1/2. She is OK with cars, but if she hears one in our cul-de-sac (but on a different road) she refuses to ride her bike until she can no longer hear it. So she couldn't ride her bike on Sunday because they were resurfacing a nearby road so there was constant engine noise. She is scared of dogs and cats. She is scared of radio controlled cars. She is scared of roborapters. She was scared of the hoover for a long time but will now tolerate it while she is sat on the bed, but as soon as her room is finished she wants me to close the door while she does the other rooms.

She is normally very road safety aware but there have been times when I have had to stop her running into the road to get away from a dog on a lead.

A lot of posters appear to think it is pretty straightforward to encourage a child to get over a fear of dogs. My DD has a fear of moving things (except people). This is quite difficult to overcome. She is 3 1/2. She is OK with cars, but if she hears one in our cul-de-sac (but on a different road) she refuses to ride her bike until she can no longer hear it. So she couldn't ride her bike on Sunday because they were resurfacing a nearby road so there was constant engine noise. She is scared of dogs and cats. She is scared of radio controlled cars. She is scared of roborapters. She was scared of the hoover for a long time but will now tolerate it while she is sat on the bed, but as soon as her room is finished she wants me to close the door while she does the other rooms.

She is normally very road safety aware but there have been times when I have had to stop her running into the road to get away from a dog on a lead.