Am I being unreasonable to expect people with dogs to invite us round?

[alexandre]

My DD is terrified of dogs and it is a completely irrational fear that I can't do anything about. Most people we know have dogs including nearly everyone in her class. One mum is really understanding and puts the dog in a pen in the garden for the duration of DD's visit but other people just don't invite her round ever - when I ask her to ask the other children why they never ask her to play they say it's because she is afraid of the dogs. The same people often call us asking if we can have their kids round, collect them from school etc. but they never invite DD back, even her best friend! The same applies to some of our friends - they expect to be invited but never invite us back because of the dog terror. If I stop inviting them we don't see them at all.

At first I was upset, now I am just annoyed with everyone and annoyed with my daughter as well for not getting over her fear although I do understand how she feels.

Is it unreasonable to expect dog owners to put their dog in a separate part of the house for an hour or two if a visitor is really petrified?

so moss, the dog is more important than the human?

When we get children round who are scared of dogs, I spend some time with them teaching them how to act and react around dogs.

Our dog is young and exuberant but does not generally jump up unless invited to do so; teach your dd the correct body language to use and how to shout 'NO' and 'DOWN'; give her some confidence to deal with them.

She will need to get over her fear anyway as time goes on - like them or hate them, dogs are a fact of life!

If you say where you are, it might help. Even the most fearful of our friends have learned to love our dog (lab/collie).

Agree totally with Wisteria

My Goodness, I am really surprised at the reaction here. If I have a child visit my hosue that doesnt like my cat I would put it out, how long is that child really going to be in my house? same would go for a dog, obviously if it was thundering and lightning I would be different about it, but this is ridiculous.

I agree you could try to help your daughters fear, it could hinder her later in life, and for that reason I would say introducing her to placid dogs would help immensely.

But seriously, I am still shocked that so many people say YABU, you most definitely are not!
Especially if these same people expect you to help them out and have their children over to yours etc, what problem is putting a dog in a different room/garden for an hour really going be.

I think this is a tricky one, I understand its the dogs home but we have 2 big dogs, both are well behaved and friendly but the younger one can sometimes be unnerved by nervous people! I tend to shut them away if we have other kids round as much to protect them from hassle from the kids as anything, if the children then want to meet the dogs, I take them in and control the situation so all stay calm and kids/dogs don't get to excited. Alexandre - I guess I agree with you!

I do think long term though, anything you are able to do to help your DD overcome her fear can only be a good thing as I'm sure you don't want her growing up feeling this way.

I wish you lots of luck x

I agree with Wisteria too. My ds1 was/is afraid of jumpy dogs having had two rather nasty encounters, when he was small. His godmother taught him to train her dogs, and I worked with him in public teaching him to to see if they are on leads, learning to walk near them, stopping and talking to dog owners, asking if they are friendly before holding out a hand to say hello to them etc.

It's a long haul, but worth it as there are so many dogs around.

If I shut my dog away while there were children in the house she'd be devastated so I wouldn't do it I'm afraid.

However I would not leave a child scared of her either; some of my dds' friends have been petrified but once they've been taught to play with her they end up adoring her.

At no point should children ever be taught not to be wary of dogs though.

notquitegrownup, it sounds tho you've done a brilliant job in helping your DS to get over he's fear and at the same time taught him how to behave safely around dogs. WELLDONE!!!

So often children just run up and surround my dogs and start stroking them, I know they obviously mean no harm but from a dogs eye view it must be a bit intimidating sometimes. I wish more parents would teach children to ask before approaching, most ownwers are then happy for their mutts to get some attention.

yes pukka our family dog is more important than some random from dd's school

mine too moss

Haven't read the whole thread, but fwiw, here is my story. DD has a friend who is terrified of cats, we have 2. Since Easter she and dd have been going to ballet once a week and we (her mum and I) took it in turns to collect girls from school, bring home to play then take to ballet, the other mother then collected them and dropped at home. I have had to stop bringing this girl into the house becuase she is terrified, hysterically so on the verge of throwing up. Her mum is a good frind and totally understands, so for the moment I just pick up from ballet. I sympathise with your situation, but as the hostess it is incredibly hard to deal with.

Alexandre - I do not think you are being unreasonable.

It's clear that many people do value thier dogs having 24/7 free access to the house rather than recoprocating hospitality or thier friends.

DS is also terrified of dogs - even extremely placid dogs on short leads. i do not know why, i am ot afraid of dogs. It isn't a case of 'showing willing', DS would actually like to be friends and stroke dogs, and says he likes them as long as they don't come near him, but is just terrified.

I thought dogs were supposed to be made to understand that they are second in importance to thier human owners and guests, as part of thier training to be obedient etc.

I think at age 9, your dd should be starting to get over her fears.
We too have a lively Cocker Spaniel, but unlike SST's one he does not calm down and will spend an entire visit trying to gain the visitors attention by getting as close as possible.
So for ds's friends (all age 8), the dog stays, and we teach the friends to turn their backs - eventually the dog gets bored and walks off.
But for dd's friends (all only age 4), we put the dog in our bedroom, where he spends a happy few hours snoozing on the big bed whilst I can devote all my attentions to breaking up whatever disagreements 4-year-old-girls get into.

Well, I hate dogs, I'm not scared at all, just think they're stinky, dirty creatures, but in this instance I would say the onus is on you to do something about your dd's fear rather than for them to have to put themselves out in their own homes.
Many dog owners are precious about their dogs and would not contemplate shutting them out of the family space, barking I know but there you go

I think it is one thing to be inhospitable and another to pander to irrational fears.

Kids that are truly scared of gentle dogs need to basically get over it. I don't mean this unkindly - it is up to all the adults involved to help them get over it, over a period of time.

There are horrible dogs around that even I am afraid of. I can tell by the breed, but I don't expect a young child to be able to discern. If I knew of a fearful child who would otherwise be invited to a playdate at my house, I think I would be willing to work with the parents to introduce the child to our dog. I don't think I would be willing to lock the dog up because she is genuinely not a threat - the problem is the child, not the dog.

am so completley shocked at peoples attitudes here.
change the animal. to say, well, anything really. would you force a young child who is terrified of the animal to be around that animal because as a host, you cant be bothered? shocking

this is a human child we are talking about.

whilst i agreew ith wisterias attitude that the child needs to be taught not to fear dogs. the op has stated again and agian the fear is irrational. and she is a CHILD.
a human child.

far more important than any dog imo

moss, your attitude horrifies me.
how can a child be less important than some four leffged mutt?
i am and that people feel like this.
this attitude is sickening. disgusting.

I understand a pet being important to a family, but what about your own children wanting to have their friends round? friends that are important to them, friends that are afraid of dogs.
Would you really put your dog before your child wanting her scared friend to feel comfortable in her home???
These arent just randoms from schools, they are your childrens friends.

I agree lorayn, hence why we shut our dog in our bedroom (as our bedroom is the only room off-limits to all guests)
Ds does have 1 friend (age 8) with a genuine phobia, (he is scared of a lot of things, cinemas and clowns being amongst them) and for him the dog also goes into the bedroom. It is no hardship on the dog (as I said, a lovely snooze on the big bed) and it ensures that I don't have to spend all my time supervising the dog and the visitor, but can instead do other things like prepare tea or come on MN!

I want my dc to have friends, and that includes inviting them here, so I make the effort - is house reasonably clean, what will I prepare for tea, is the dog locked away etc.

I have to say though, those children that just don't like dogs but are not afraid, for them (if they are 8 or so) the dog stays and they have to lump it.
Although I once had one delightful darling call the dog a 'stupid idiot' , and he was not invited back!

YABU
Just ask the friends over to your house instead

If you are actually doing these people favours, beyond having the children round to play which is not a favour but to do with your ddd's freindships, then can you start asking a degree of reciprocation?

If they ask you to collect their children, can you say 'oh, the problem is that I need to arrange a swap with someone who can collect my DD on another day, and am looking for someone who doesn't have a dog or puts it in the bedroom...so I'll let you know!" and don't do the favour unless they say "oh that's ok, Rex/Fido/Canine Centre of our Universe can snooze in the bedroom for an hour".

Hang on a minute - no one (Moss and myself included) is saying that a dog's life is more important than that of a child but that the child's fear is not as important as the dog, it's completely different.

If the dog is not doing anything wrong and it's the child's fear that is preventing him/ her coming to play then something needs to be done to address the fear; locking the dog away is just reinforcing the child's feeling that the dog is something to be scared of. Not to mention the dog feeling as though they have been naughty when they have not.

I agree that children should be taught that dogs can be dangerous but also that they can be loving, gentle and very protective creatures as well. Our dog is one of my dd's best friends (and all her friends now see it like that too but we have had to work with some of them to engender that confidence).

Hmm. I do shut my dog away when we have people around who dislike dogs or are scared of them. I have always thought of it as me being polite and accomodating, rather than something I ought to do. A generous gesture on my part, if you like.

I don't particularly like shutting her away because she wonders what on earth she has done wrong and feels sad - yes, she is 'just' a dog, but she is also a much loved and important member of our family. I have worked hard to ensure that she is well behaved and gentle with children, so I particularly don't like shutting her away because someone is scared of her - it's like being scared of an armchair for goodness sake.

(I do keep a baby gate on the sitting room door to keep that room dog-free while we have babies or lots of little children around.)

A dog is merely an animal, it should always take second place to the needs of ANY human.
It's complete bonkers madness to see it any onther way.
It is only an animal.
It is NOT a human being.

I have a dog who is very much part of the family. When people come round who are afraid of her she goes in my bedroom or in the garden. Sometimes she has to go in there just for some peace and quiet when DDs friends aren't afraid of her. A friend of mine is quite phobic, and it doesn't hurt the dog to go into another room for an hour. I draw the line at putting my children in the garden or bedroom if people don't like them though!