Am I in the wrong?

[handelswe]

I've NCed for obvious reasons

Background- I was with my boyfriend for a few months and I got pregnant. I had DD at 17. When I was pregnant he stole his dads car and was drink driving and he crashed and his best friend died. DDs dad was sentenced to 4 years. I visited him with Dd when she was a few months old but he said he didn't want me to bring DD as a prison wasn't a place for a baby. I did write to him and he always asked about dd. He was realised on license a few weeks ago. DD is now almost 3. I've been texting him and yesterday his dad asked if I'd take DD to his so she can see her dad and him. DD didn't really go near her dad as she was shy.

One of my friends said I shouldn't have as he's dangerous and a murderer. I told her that it was a mistake what he did and I believe he should still be able to see his DD grow up and DD should be able to see her dad

AIBU? Any other advice will be appreciated

He was young and stupid, he didn’t think about the consequences, if he did he wouldn’t have got in the car. A girl our daughter went to school with died in a car accident this year, my heart goes out to all the families involved, particularly her parents but also the lad who was driving and his parents, it’s destroyed him and the families of everyone involved, he is only 17 and had only been passed a few weeks. He wasn’t drinking but showing off. Young people just don’t see the risks of their reckless behaviour and it’s heartbreaking. Life is so precious.

Your ex is not a terrible person as by his own admission prison was no place for a baby. You’ve done nothing wrong OP, take things easy and see how things go. Hopefully he will use this opportunity to turn his life around.

Slowly slowly is the best approach as you know. I don’t agree with your friend. In order for your dd to build a meaningful relationship with him, he needs to do the counselling first. Neither you nor your dd (especially your dd) should be placed in a position, where they are there to cheer him up. He is responsible for his actions and his mental health. If you or your dd become the prize to cheer him up, he cannot be a proper father. His stupidity is not a burden for anyone else to carry and should not be placed on your dd. Being there to make him happy will damage her a lot.

Posted too soon. And if you ever are to have a relationship with him in the future, he should not be leaning on you in this way. Relationship are for mutual benefit. Be careful not to become his lover and therapist.

Silly thing of your friend to say he's a murderer. What he done is manslaughter, yes the outcome is the same but the intent is completely different. I wish people would learn the difference 🙄

Anyway OP every child has a right to a relationship with their father, yes he done a terrible thing with tragic consequences but if you stop that relationship the child could grow up to resent you for it. If they grow up then decide for themselves they don't want that relationship then that's also fine.

I'd say just go extremely slow and I wouldn't leave them alone together either, but ultimately it's up to you what you wish to do in the situation.

He made an awful mistake when young which he paid for legally. It will stay with him, and his friends family, however, for the rest of their lives. Whether a crime or mistake- makes no difference. Yes it is a crime but he didn't intentionally kill his friend.He has been judged and sentenced.
He has a right to see his child and you have a right to financial support from him.
Think its about the child really. Would take it from there. Your relationship with him is separate. If you do want one take it slow- at least 6 months of him paying child support.

I wouldn't do anything unless he took the initiative himself, not his dad. I would expect him to make the effort.

Thank you for your replies

I do want to get back with him but not yet as I want to take things slow for DD. I definitely won't leave them alone together yet though. I will ignore my friend though and give him a chance

[quote SteeperThanHell]@Wheresmykimchi Anybody who steals a car and gets in to it whilst drunk does so in the knowledge that it may not end well. The OP has said herself that he just thought it would be funny. Would you think it was just a mistake if it had been a member of your family that had been killed by him?

This is not the sort of person that I would want in my child’s life - unless it was court-ordered. I certainly would be activity chasing any sort of relationship with him.

I wonder how his friends family are coping and if they think a 4 year sentence (out in less than 3) was sufficient?[/quote]
I completely agree.
We lost a family member in similar circumstances. The driver should have been sentenced to life (and have it mean life)! 4 years reduced to 3 is an outrage.

With regard to the death, his mate got in the car with him, he wasn't a random pedestrian or other car driver. He had some responsibility for what happened to him. Intent is massively important in regard to sentencing and rightly so. The OPs ex was a stupid immature lad with a mate. It was pure bad luck that they didn't just drive harmlessly into a ditch and good luck that they weren't both killed or hit someone else. It sounds like he still needs to process what being a dad means and OP, I would absolutely continue life without him in the picture or future plan for now, other than brief visits.

I'm not prepared to call it a mistake. He knowingly and intentionally stole a car, and drove drunk, choices which resulted in the death of his friend. That's not a mistake, an error of that sort of magnitude. It is a crime.

He intended to steal the car, he knowingly drove under the (considerable) influence of alcohol. He did not foresee or intend the death of his friend.

Regardless of whether one thinks the time was sufficient, for the crime, that was what he was sentenced to, and that's what he has done.

Neither of these two bells can be unrung.

I hope very much he does get some counselling, and maybe assistance in creating a life plan, which will have to take into account the life altering effects of having committed such a crime, having a criminal conviction, and having served a reasonably substantial (in terms of having to be declared to potential employers, etc) criminal sentence. Because he does have to live, and it's better for society if he can live a productive and constructive life, as well as for his daughter.

The number one thing that should inform your thoughts and actions OP, is the best interests of your daughter. Not her father, not you, not her grandfather. Make sure that is the question you ask yourself throughout, 'what's best for my daughter, is this in her best interests?' If he is no longer the angry, wilful drunken boy who committed the crime, if he has grown up and matured and gained some personal insight and self control, then that might be to facilitate a relationship with her father.

You want to get back with him??

For the love, why?

He's got no job and little in the way of prospects unless he's very lucky.

You need to slow down. Lots.

He stole his dads car and was drink driving and he crashed and his best friend died.

OP, can I start by fixing your OP.

He got drunk, stole a car, crashed, and the resulting accident was serious enough to kill his friend.

Maybe if you start realistically understanding what happened, rather than this passive narrative where the friend just happens to die you might start to come closer to a sensible decision for your child.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t see the child, I’m saying that your thinking is not fully understanding of the situation, and until it is you’ll make decisions that might not be the best. This is a very serious situation, your child’s father is responsible for someone’s death, not by accident but as a result of a chain of stupid dangerous decisions. People who make stupid dangerous decisions for which they end up in prison are not good people to have around your children.

He made an awful mistake with devastating consequences. He no doubt will think about it for the rest of his life.

However it sounds as though he has huge regret and he has served his time in prison. I don’t think his and his daughter relationship should be thrown out the window because of it.

His specific offence does t suggest there should be any particular risk to children. Unless he is drinking a lot and likely to drive with her.

I would however encourage him to see her with you in a place that is familiar to her so she is happier. I’d start very small and build up if it seems to be going well.

Is he out on licence?
You could contact probation to see if they think there are any risks to your daughter.

@handelswe

Thank you for your replies

I do want to get back with him but not yet as I want to take things slow for DD. I definitely won't leave them alone together yet though. I will ignore my friend though and give him a chance

I think you need to separate your wanting a relationship with him and he contact for your daughter and him to have a relationship.

I’d just take everything very slowly and see how the land lies when he has had a decent amount of time back in the community.

@handelswe

Thank you for your replies

I do want to get back with him but not yet as I want to take things slow for DD. I definitely won't leave them alone together yet though. I will ignore my friend though and give him a chance

I wouldn’t go into this with wanting to get back with him as your motivation it will cloud your judgement. Your friend is entitled to her opinion but it’s not massively helpful to you right now.

I understand that you would want dd to have a relationship with her dad, and regardless of whether he deserves it or not, that could well be his motivation to get counselling, get work and get himself on track.

Mentally, he is going to be very screwed up, assuming you were the same age, he found out he was going to be a dad, his dad was moving in with someone he didn’t like, he was an angry, worried 17 yo who did the most stupid thing he could do and it backfired spectacularly leaving him with the guilt for the rest of his life. 4 years later he has an awful lot of rebuilding to do, and yes your dd can help with that, but every step you take she must be your first priority.

Rebuild the friendship by all means, but don’t let dd get too attached until you know the person he is now.

💐 good luck

You sound as though you’ve got your head screwed on op. Take it carefully (which you seem to be). You’ve got your eyes open.
I’ve represented several who have killed through drunk driving - it’s an absolute tragedy (often the person killed is a close friend and it’s not uncommon for that bereaved family to ask the sentencing judge not to impose custodial sentence - which is inevitable). Dd dad has a lot to face up to. No reason why he should not start to take on the realities and responsibilities of being a dad. No reason your dd should grow up without knowing her dad.
Good luck.

He's her father.

Let her have a relationship with him. Unless you believe him to be dangerous / that he might harm your daughter (mentally or physically). Trust however does need to be earned.

And I'm assuming that he hasn't done that yet. Usupervised contact therefore wouldn't be something I'd support.

Only you know him well enough to say whether he is safe around DD and a decent person who made a mistake he will regret all his life. If you feel he is he should be with his DD when you allow it, otherwise shut him out of her life.

For me this would depend on a few things. Did he run off to avoid getting caught or did he stay with his friend? Did he plead guilty or not guilty? How old is he?
I do think people can make mistakes when young and learn from them but please go slowly and carefully. He’s saying he wants counselling, let him be the one to sort this out and actually attend. I’d try to do maybe fortnightly contacts outside in a park. Do not rush back into a relationship, he’ll be doing a lot of processing and changing whilst adjusting to life outside.

@Whatisthisfuckery

He stole his dads car and was drink driving and he crashed and his best friend died.

OP, can I start by fixing your OP.

He got drunk, stole a car, crashed, and the resulting accident was serious enough to kill his friend.

Maybe if you start realistically understanding what happened, rather than this passive narrative where the friend just happens to die you might start to come closer to a sensible decision for your child.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t see the child, I’m saying that your thinking is not fully understanding of the situation, and until it is you’ll make decisions that might not be the best. This is a very serious situation, your child’s father is responsible for someone’s death, not by accident but as a result of a chain of stupid dangerous decisions. People who make stupid dangerous decisions for which they end up in prison are not good people to have around your children.

A bit patronising. I'm sure OP fully understands. What's more likely is she's coming at it from someone who loved this man and who desperately wants her child back. You are being unnecessary.

Take it VERY slowly.
He is out on license, which means he has to prove he has matured and is law-abiding. No drinking, no risk-taking, no pushing boundaries.
Only then might he be a dad to your DD.
Somebody upthread mentioned that he had a right to see his DD - well yes, but with rights come responsibilities. Make sure they are in place, OP.

@handelswe

Yes I do have feelings for him but even if I didn't I'd still think he should be able to see his DD grow up. I know he feels extremely guilty and he misses his friend alot. I know it was a huge mistake as he wouldn't have done it on purpose he said he just thought it would've been funny

Its a tough one, We have all done stupid things, taken silly risks and have been lucky enough not to have a fatal outcome. No, I have never driven drunk, or stolen a family members car, or killed anyone. but i have done seriously questionable things, which could have gone wrong - but didnt.

there are not many people who can say they have

If he is genuinely remorseful - then maybe there is hope?

How come he served the full time and didn't get out early? Was his behaviour bad in prison?

@HollowTalk

How come he served the full time and didn't get out early? Was his behaviour bad in prison?

She said he’s out on license so didn’t serve his full sentance in custody.