My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (and her mum)

[workworkworkugh]

I'm going to write this in point form, I just want to get some other unbiased opinions on my son and his gf of 5 months.
Our point of view is that the relationship is not a healthy one.
We understand that at this age teens start to move away from the family unit but we feel this is above the realms of 'normal'

*she gets mad at him if she doesn't have his full attention.
*she gets mad at him if he hangs out with his mates, so he hasn't hung out with them for 3+ months.
*last time he did she dumped him.
*she cries if he's not at school
*she gets mad at him for playing his Xbox (and not answering her call on the first ring)
*he got a new Xbox for Xmas and she's already making noises about him playing it too much, also about his sport that he loves playing is starting up again soon and she's getting sad about that.
*he spends every single day with her, anywhere from 6-14hours
*it's like he feels guilty if he spends time with us so has to make it up to her
*he can't spend a full day with us as a family, not even Xmas day
*we invite her to our house and to things we're going to but she refuses
*at one point he didn't eat dinner with us for over two weeks as he was with her
*they send literal pages of gushing to each other every single day about how much they love each other and the kids they're going to have 😳
*her mum seems to encourage it (the intensity) which doesn't help
*the Mum, who is 50yo, has texted him (in reply to his messages) "thank you my beautiful James Arthur, you're so adorable" along with a kissy face emoji (not his real name obviously)

We're happy for him to spend time with her and don't stop him much, but it's getting to be too much. We miss him and sometimes want to see him too.
He seems to know it's not right but 'loves her', and I remember young love, we're only in our 30's, so we're happy to be flexible but it still feels very unhealthy to us.
We also don't want to alienate him.

So AIBU and how to we put some boundaries in place, because he clearly doesn't know how to!

While trying to be reasonable and take teens' viewpoints in to account, the point about the holidays (for anyone other parents of teens who happen to be reading) is that if collectively the family assumes or expects that the teen will be joining them - at the age of op's son anyway - then the onus is on the teen to explain themselves if they are going to diverge from the norm in any way. The parent shouldn't second guess their teen or start begging. It gets you off on the wrong foot/dynamic immediately!

Gah! Sorry!

Any other parents of teens...

Does he have a sister or female cousin?
Have you come at it from the angle of I a boyfriend was treating them in the same way?

Hi OP,

Glad you got away as a family.

As per the Snapchat videos IME it's par for the course.

As per my previous advice it's easy to go "full on" but you're playing a game that the GF can only win.

She says you want to spilt them up. You do because of her behaviour.

Don't contact her parents. They'll back her all they way and you're going to be the "controlling" parent.

One thing that helped us was to keep a diary (one for us but more importantly for DSD so she could track how much more he made her feel bad than good).

You say he's not wanting to hold a grudge. Ok. Put that in the diary and reference the incident.

It helped DH (me) and his Ex a lot when she "blocked" his poor behaviour (and hers tbh).

It's especially tough them not being in school but depending on status I would speak to them when they return.

What's key is keeping an open communication with your DS. Don't threaten to split them up but keep asking open questions about why her behaviour is acceptable for him to draw his own conclusions (and the diary can help with that)

We had a similar situation at the school I work in and they were very supportive.

I really feel for you it must be horrendous!

How is it going, OP?

Thanks for asking @notinthiseconomy , not well.
As soon as we got back he rushed to her workplace to buy her dinner then to her house.

He's been back to his new 'normal' of being rude, not following our rules/expectations and if he is home (because she's at work) he locks himself in his room and doesn't speak to us and only comes out if we're in bed.

I've pretty much cried every day this year out of frustration.

You are in such an awful situation, @workworkworkugh... Is it possible you could convince him to go to a family therapist with you?

That’s awful OP, I hope something happens to improve things ASAP.

Another update, hopefully I can say it is the final one!

I had a chat with the Mum yesterday, I didn't badmouth her daughter and I said I was trying to explain the rules in our house and why we have them (not that I should have to) just to clear the air that it wasn't a personal attack or me trying to 'get at' the daughter/girlfriend as I was so told.

The Mum seems to know exactly what the GF is like and admitted the GF hates me because she never gets told No and I did, by proxy by saying no to my son.

The Mum wasn't aware of the nasty videos or texts that were sent to my DS and she was going to speak to her daughter.
I also returned their house key as I mentioned it was inappropriate that my son had been given it.

This chat came about as they invited my DS on a day out next week and then an overnight trip to our nearest city which is three hours away as the GF wanted to "spend a night away with DS for their 6 month anniversary and obviously they can't go alone" so her parents were going to chaperone.
I said a day trip is fine but an overnight is not happening, and that is why the GF hates me in the first place.

There's a lot more I could say but that's a very small overview.
Thanks so much for the support over the last few weeks, it's really got me through a tough time and it was great to be able to vent my frustrations 😊

Fingers crossed things improve, although if I'm being honest I'm not holding my breath haha

OP, have read your posts but not the whole thread so apologies if this has been suggested. Have you thought about trying to love bomb the daughter? So make your house somewhere they want to be, pay her compliments, buy her little gifts etc. At the same time your DH can express the lessons re safe sex, appropriate behaviour etc. It could be you are not hiding your disdain for her which she picks up on, forcing her to feel she wants to “win” the battle and prove she is most important. Classic MIL stuff but just starting early! It might be if you throw yourself at her and act like it is ok, the relationship will lose the common enemy, you, and fizzle out. They are likely shagging anyway at 16 so why not let them go on what sounds like a great trip? Ask to see your photos, send a gift with him for her. Throw yourself at the relationship and the Romeo and Juliet aspect of it may well disappear and your son may lose interest or she might. Also, there is a chance they MAY last the distance so you really want to try to build the relationship or you could lose your son or grandchildren in the future. Just an alternative approach!

I’m sorry to read the situation with your ds hasn’t improved and he’s forgiven all the abuse and nastiness.

From that chat with her mother, did she mean she never says no to her daughter but understands where you’re coming from?

@SandysMam thanks for your post, but we used to see her all the time and we got along great until I said no to a sleepover before they'd even been together 3 months and she's not on contraception.
I'm not naive enough to think they're not already having sex but I certainly don't want to hand it to them on a silver platter.

Plus the disrespect we are copping from our DS at home as well as her nastiness means I'm not willing to give in to her demands, which is what they are, plain and simple.
We have made a few comments I guess to our son about her behaviour towards him but all of our opinions of her are kept between me and my DH

@Mummyoflittledragon the Mum basically admitted that they never say no to her and she knows she's a spoilt brat.
She understands where I'm coming from though and our reasons for our rules/boundaries in our house.

Ok thanks for clarifying that. The parents have created a monster it seems. What she has said perhaps explains the behaviour of some people I house shared with for a term at university. We went out every evening for a week. Then one evening I said, I’d want an early night and would pass. From that moment on, they bullied me relentlessly and I found somewhere else to live. I then lived with 3 girls - two were good friends with one another and I was friends with the third. But they didn’t know my friend. I knew both of them. All 18/19. That also only lasted a term or less maybe? They were horrible about my friend.

What I’m trying to say is that at 18/19, young adults in my experience seem to make very rash decisions and stick with them. For this reason, in my experience at least, I don’t think love bombing her as suggested above will work. She will quite possibly see it as a way to treat you even worse. I also learnt after years of trying that the nicer you are to someone, who doesn’t like you, sees you as a threat or is jealous of you, the nastier they will get. People don’t like others, who are too nice. This phenomenon has been studied and they prefer people with boundaries.

Me again, resurrecting my own thread as I have a new question.

So much has been happening and to be honest we're exhausted by it all and feeling rejected and yes, a small part probably finding it hard to let go to an extent (although I do feel like we give him a lot of freedom and leeway)

Anyway, I want to know if there's a nice way to tell the mother (of the gf) to back the F off?
She's so desperate for her daughters approval, she never says no...to anything and of course our DS will say yes to all that they're offering but if she just took a step back a little bit we might be able to have some sort of relationship again with our son.
I have mentioned it to her nicely, in the early days and she seemed to understand but now it's worse.

So is there a nice way to tell someone to back off?

Hopeful bump

Personally I think no. I really don't think you can tell another parent how to parent without making this worse.
Just for context, although my daughter wasn't as bad as this girl, I remember her being extremely intense, and being pretty vile if her ex boyfriend wanted to do something else. I had umpteen conversations with her about unhealthy relationships and I might have been as well talking to myself, so I don't think the other mum would get anywhere anyway. My daughter at that time had undiagnosed MH issues ( I am NOT saying this girl has, only my own daughter).
Result was, that EVENTUALLY the ex boyfriend got fed up with her intenseness and they split up (relationship lasted almost 2 years).
She is in her 20s now and is embarrassed about how she behaved. She is in a much much healthier relationship now. You might need to just ride this out am afraid.

@workworkworkugh
What has happened op? It’s hard to give advice on how to say back off without the full story? I remember your post from Xmas and I was horrified for you the . Really hope you get your son back soon! His gf is vile.

I would imagine she is scared her DD won’t love her if she says no and wants to be her friend all the time.

There must be a reason the Mother just can’t say no. Either guilt due to an incident or situation or her own sense of self is lost due to something that happened to her. I doubt you can sort out this woman’s internal struggles with her own head which is the reason her parenting is so crap.

Sending best wishes and bumping for you.

OP i didn't read your original post but am horrified by all of this! I have a 16yo DS, also with a girlfriend of almost a year. His situation couldn't be any different: they see each other twice a week (once at hers, once at ours),they're both focused on their studies (exam year), see friends all the time and spend the majority of time at home. This is the way it should be. They're not having sex (with lockdown it's been impossible- silver lining). This situation your son is in is absolutely awful. I have no solutions, just wanted to give you and ask if you wanted to explain what's been going on.

My DB was in a relationship like this when he was in his late teens. All the points you mention trigger horrible memories. My DB couldn’t see that this was abuse. He became so ill and anxious and withdrawn. The psycho ex was jealous of me. She didn’t like my twin talking to me.

You need to have a calm conversation with your DS. Provide him with information on emotional, controlling abuse. Maybe read up on signs before you talk to him.

Sorry, just to clarify, I mean back off from my son.
She can do what she likes with her daughter, although standing up to her would be a start in my opinion.

If we say no to our son (quite rare, but it happens) then she says yes.
It's like we're sharing custody with our own son between his gf's Mums house one week and her dads house the next.
The Mum takes him to school, picks him up from school, takes him to and picks him up from his training and back to their house for dinner every night.
Will come and pick him up before picking up the gf from work etc etc

Our DS's sport and hobby is about to start up, this is a big passion for him and has been his whole life and the GF is now giving him a hard time and threatening to dump him as she doesn't want him to play (as it's less time with her), you can tell he's struggling with this and has apparently told her he's not giving it up but she's relentless, I can see she won't stop until he's given it up

@workworkworkugh please find a domestic abuse charity and articles on signs of emotional abuse. My DB was in a relationship exactly like this. I lost him to her. He didn’t speak to his family or friends and was always having panic attacks because he didn’t let her know he was home as soon as he got through the door. He never felt like he could say no to her.

He tried to kill himself. Thankfully, he wasn’t successful and he’s still alive today. He couldn’t see this was abuse.

@workworkworkugh he’s 16 right? Well just start going and picking him up before she can. Enforce some rules. They can hang out 2 or 3 times a week. He needs to be at home more, if he was 18 I’d say nothing you can do but as 16 year old he needs to be concentrating on school
More.

Aw OP, I've read all your posts and this is so rubbish, but I'm really not sure there's much you can do.

Teen relationships can be so intense and the likelihood is it will burn itself out at some point. It sounds like the more you try and protect your son, the further he goes into his shell and towards his girlfriend - I would be very cautious of doing anything more as GF's parents are clearly not on the same page as you and I could genuinely see the mum encouraging your son to move in with her just so her daughter gets what she wants.

I really think the best thing you can do is try and act more relaxed about it so he doesn't feel like if he does end things with her (whenever that may be) that you're 'winning'. I know it will be hard, but at the moment, he probably feels like they're Romeo and Juliet and you're trying to keep them apart! Totally ridiculous but...teenagers .

I think also the teen years are very difficult as a whole and you probably need to accept that he doesn't want to spend time as a family for now. He will be back when he's through this phase but I would stop trying to push him to do things like go to the beach etc, offer him the invite casually and if he comes, he comes.