My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (and her mum)

[workworkworkugh]

I'm going to write this in point form, I just want to get some other unbiased opinions on my son and his gf of 5 months.
Our point of view is that the relationship is not a healthy one.
We understand that at this age teens start to move away from the family unit but we feel this is above the realms of 'normal'

*she gets mad at him if she doesn't have his full attention.
*she gets mad at him if he hangs out with his mates, so he hasn't hung out with them for 3+ months.
*last time he did she dumped him.
*she cries if he's not at school
*she gets mad at him for playing his Xbox (and not answering her call on the first ring)
*he got a new Xbox for Xmas and she's already making noises about him playing it too much, also about his sport that he loves playing is starting up again soon and she's getting sad about that.
*he spends every single day with her, anywhere from 6-14hours
*it's like he feels guilty if he spends time with us so has to make it up to her
*he can't spend a full day with us as a family, not even Xmas day
*we invite her to our house and to things we're going to but she refuses
*at one point he didn't eat dinner with us for over two weeks as he was with her
*they send literal pages of gushing to each other every single day about how much they love each other and the kids they're going to have 😳
*her mum seems to encourage it (the intensity) which doesn't help
*the Mum, who is 50yo, has texted him (in reply to his messages) "thank you my beautiful James Arthur, you're so adorable" along with a kissy face emoji (not his real name obviously)

We're happy for him to spend time with her and don't stop him much, but it's getting to be too much. We miss him and sometimes want to see him too.
He seems to know it's not right but 'loves her', and I remember young love, we're only in our 30's, so we're happy to be flexible but it still feels very unhealthy to us.
We also don't want to alienate him.

So AIBU and how to we put some boundaries in place, because he clearly doesn't know how to!

wow she has her claws sunk deep 😳

My blood is boiling for you!!!!Hope she does invite other boys around and cheat on him! Maybe he’d see the light then.I’d be so tempted to message her back and say you may be able to use these tactics on ds but you won’t use them with me.I’ll still be here when you’re long gone!enjoy you night with all the boys!what a manipulative little cow!

I would be so tempted to reply to the little devil: “oh - that’s interesting. You are quick to suggest that you will be inviting other boys when all i have suggested is that spends a tiny bit time with his family. I am surprised. What should I tell him?”

But let the cooler heads on this thread prevail and keep your powder dry on this one. It is quite clear from her message, though, that she is not the love-sick teen - there is a healthy dose of manipulative bitch mixed in there too.

Or could you forward to the mother?

It seems unhealthy to us now but at 16 I'm
Not sure we would have seen it the same way.

@CoraPirbright

I would be so tempted to reply to the little devil: “oh - that’s interesting. You are quick to suggest that you will be inviting other boys when all i have suggested is that spends a tiny bit time with his family. I am surprised. What should I tell him?”

But let the cooler heads on this thread prevail and keep your powder dry on this one. It is quite clear from her message, though, that she is not the love-sick teen - there is a healthy dose of manipulative bitch mixed in there too.

AGREE!!!

The best response is definitely along the "have a nice time" lines.

I'd make him give back their house key - that is beyond inappropriate.

She's obviously used to using emotional blackmail to get her way.

Would she not come to the beach with you? I know that's not what you want but it might stop the dramatics.

I was in a very intense relationship at 16 and whilst I wouldn't have sent that text to the mother I would've definitely sent it to the boyfriend!

I knew that the mother didn't value our relationship and in my eyes that threatened our relationship, looking back I behaved terribly and it was all down to insecurity.

I have a 16 year old ds so I can empathise but I also remember that at 16 I would not have wanted to spent NY with parents.

@tomnjerrylover

I'd make him give back their house key - that is beyond inappropriate.

She's obviously used to using emotional blackmail to get her way.

I agree it's inappropriate but at 16 the OP can't make him do this.

The same way he can't be forced him to go on holiday with the family.

This is the law in Aus:

"Once you turn 16, you won't normally be forced to return home by the authorities as long as you've got a safe place to go and you can financially support yourself. If you're under 18 and leave home, the police and Child Safety may investigate the reasons why you left home."

In this case the GF parents seem happy to provide him with a "safe space" and the last thing the OP wants is for him to leave and live there unable to keep an eye on what's happening and have him at the mercy of the GF and her enabling parents.

It's why it's important to keep a very cool head and not doing anything as far as possible to make this into a power struggle with the DS in the middle.

The most likely outcome is that this relationship with all its drama will burn itself out.

That will take longer if the OP "adds" fuel to the mix buy standing in the face of "love".

It's all about being calm and reasonable - even when the teen involved tests you too your limits.

I think a pp rightly imho described how as a parent to a teen you have to develop your acting skills and poker face.

That text comes across to us a very nasty and manipulative.

He won't see that because she'll twist it - "oh darling of course I wouldn't invite other boys, don't be silly. I was just trying to get your mum to let us spend NY together, but as I've proven she'd rather see us spilt up by taking you away when you don't want to go - she thinks I'll dump you if go and she's happy for that to happen".

See what I mean?

He'll hear what he wants to, until over time he realises for himself that he misses his friends, family, x-box even just time to himself without being bombarded with texts/calls and walking on eggshells for fear of being dumped because he didn't pick up his phone when he was working/studying/gaming etc.

Right now the trade off seems worth it to him, but that won't last. The intensity is just too much to sustain.

Would she not come to the beach with you? I know that's not what you want but it might stop the dramatics.

The OP has said the girlfriend won't do anything with them or go to their house.

Wow that text! I have teenage girls and I can’t imagine them or any of their mates texting a boyfriends mum like that

It’s very heady stuff this first love, I’m really not sure what I’d do in your shoes. I’m leaning towards step back, love bomb him and wait for it to fizzle out but easier said than done!

19:07 DeRigueurMortis brilliant post and much more thoughtful than my response.

@BigSandyBalls2015

Wow that text! I have teenage girls and I can’t imagine them or any of their mates texting a boyfriends mum like that

It’s very heady stuff this first love, I’m really not sure what I’d do in your shoes. I’m leaning towards step back, love bomb him and wait for it to fizzle out but easier said than done!

Absolutely it's hard, having been there!

Doing "nothing" or very little with a light touch was one of the most difficult things DH, her DM and I had to do with DSD when she was ensconced in a similar relationship at that age.

It goes against every parental instinct, especially when the damage/manipulation etc is so very obvious to yourself if not the child.

It's incredibly hard to say things like "we'd love you to come away with us, but understand if you want to be with your GF" with a bright carefree smile on your face as if you couldn't care a whit either way, when inside you want to sob and are scared shitless for them.

Acting like something isn't a big deal, when you know it is, is really bloody hard but the tighter you try and pull them to you the more they'll struggle against you and cleve to the relationship.

One other thing. Please can everyone remember that his GF is, like the OP's son a 16 year old child.

I'm not defending her behaviour.

It is manipulative and inappropriate, but try to remember that behind all this is likely a scared kid with low self esteem, experiencing new and powerful emotions for the first time and worried the object of her "love" will leave her. He only "control" is when she's with him or in contact with him.

She may have other issues to deal with that we have no understanding of.

We're not dealing with an adult here who should know better and as such calling her a bitch etc isn't acceptable. It as much as "your" child could be in this situation as the "son", so could they be the GF.

It took us quite a while to understand that DSD was "dishing it out" as much as she was receiving. Her BF would threaten to break up, she'd threaten to self harm. He'd say "you'd do "x" if you loved me" she'd say "you wouldn't do "y" if you loved me" and so on...and on....

So it's alway worth bearing in mind that as bad as things look as far as the GF's actions you don't have all the facts, which is why you're best not engaging with her and encouraging either of them in additional drama.

Thanks so much everyone for talking me through this!
Especially @DeRigueurMortis your advice is quite spot on.

Before I read all these replies I had already spoken to him, she had sent him screenshots of our messages so he knew all about it and I asked for his opinion on it all.
My takeaway is that he can see what she's doing, he knows it's not right but I don't think he wants to admit it.

He rushed around there early today as she threatened to dump him if he went away with us, he went around to placate her but he told me that he also stood up to her and said she can't take all her frustrations out on him as it's not fair.
She also gets mad at him when he gets an extra shift at work as she doesn't understand why he needs to work instead of being with her basically.

He's being quite good with talking it through with us right now, but that will all change when the next issue comes up.

She hates us for stopping all of their plans (we've stopped one) and is setting the scene for it to be our fault if she dumps him.
I said that it's not right that she's making him choose between her and his family and where does it stop? And how much is he willing to tolerate.
It seems to have given him some things to think about...until next time, and he admitted that there will be a next time 🙄

@workworkworkugh

Thanks so much everyone for talking me through this! Especially *@DeRigueurMortis* your advice is quite spot on.

Before I read all these replies I had already spoken to him, she had sent him screenshots of our messages so he knew all about it and I asked for his opinion on it all.
My takeaway is that he can see what she's doing, he knows it's not right but I don't think he wants to admit it.

He rushed around there early today as she threatened to dump him if he went away with us, he went around to placate her but he told me that he also stood up to her and said she can't take all her frustrations out on him as it's not fair.
She also gets mad at him when he gets an extra shift at work as she doesn't understand why he needs to work instead of being with her basically.

He's being quite good with talking it through with us right now, but that will all change when the next issue comes up.

She hates us for stopping all of their plans (we've stopped one) and is setting the scene for it to be our fault if she dumps him.
I said that it's not right that she's making him choose between her and his family and where does it stop? And how much is he willing to tolerate.
It seems to have given him some things to think about...until next time, and he admitted that there will be a next time 🙄

You are welcome OP.

It's a horrible experience as a parent when you know it's all messed up.

It sounds like you've made some good progress today and that's great 😀.

But (based on experience) don't push it.

Keep your "cool" and poker face.

This might be a pause in events but not the end.

Indifference (faked) was a great asset.

As in a pp I made he's still your child and deep down knows you love him and has the values you've brought him up with.

Hormones....

Thank goodness you didn’t respond to her email.... She’s a piece of work, isn’t she? It’s a pity that Coercive Control isn’t an offense in Australia. The laws in the UK were built with people like this girl in mind (when she becomes an adult, of course!) Can you imagine how she’s going to evolve as an adult? Yikes!!!

Sounds awful and her mother is a bit inappropriate

We're happy for him to spend time with herx

Why the fuck?! She's a needy controlling abuser from an apparently dysfunctional household. Why would you want your son being involved with someone like that at any age?

shes obviously clingy in my opinion just tell her to calm down and stop being an overprotective bitch

To be fair she might be ok in the end she is a teen. Also of course better he doesn’t go to their house no shit! But how is op supposed to stop him without utterly alienating him and turning them into Romeo and sodding Juliet?

I know the text exchange is over but don’t ever reply in anger to her, however tempting that may be.
She is clearly very manipulative but I suspect your DS will see that for himself before too long.
Personally I would have sent her a cheery “well you are only young once” reply to her brazen text.

The only thing you can do is stop letting him dictate your life. Your not a taxi. You dont have to plan your life around him.

@workworkworkugh

I just want to write down my thoughts here as it helps me to get them out as I don't have many people to talk to about this, like a diary of sorts.

We're having a beach day today and told him last night we'd really like him to come, no luck, he refused. Thinks it's boring and all we do is argue with him (not true) I said ok, we'll call a truce, no arguments as we want to have a really nice day, so he told me then we're just being fake.

He told me last night that all we do is have a go at him about everything, abuse him, he hates it here, never wants to be home, he does so much to help us out (😂), we don't take responsibility for how we treat him, and two years ago we borrowed some money from him as we were unexpectedly in a tough spot, we paid him back ASAP, but he brought that up saying he's the reason we kept our house (also not true at all) and he thinks we're shit parents for telling him to start paying for his phone and that he'll probably have to start paying for our other bills too 🙄 (on his one shift a week)

This kid just got the newest Xbox for Xmas that he requested, a very expensive sports top, he goes to a private catholic school that's costing us a fortune and does make the budget tight for us, we're his taxi to everywhere, we encourage and drive him all over for his sports that he loves because we want him to do what makes him happy.
I literally do not know the kid standing in front of me anymore.

So we left him at home and he went straight to the gf's. God know what he's telling her and her parents about us!

Thanks for letting me vent 😔

That third paragraph, the negativity towards you. To me, that's sounding like it's come straight out of his girlfriend or her mother's mouth. Emotional abuse is a sort of brainwashing.

When he goes back to school, can you maybe flag this all with the school counsellor? This may be part of a wider problem at her home that you may not know about and he might need some methodology trying to unravel and extricate himself. (And work on his own self-esteem and manipulation tactics)