My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (and her mum)

[workworkworkugh]

I'm going to write this in point form, I just want to get some other unbiased opinions on my son and his gf of 5 months.
Our point of view is that the relationship is not a healthy one.
We understand that at this age teens start to move away from the family unit but we feel this is above the realms of 'normal'

*she gets mad at him if she doesn't have his full attention.
*she gets mad at him if he hangs out with his mates, so he hasn't hung out with them for 3+ months.
*last time he did she dumped him.
*she cries if he's not at school
*she gets mad at him for playing his Xbox (and not answering her call on the first ring)
*he got a new Xbox for Xmas and she's already making noises about him playing it too much, also about his sport that he loves playing is starting up again soon and she's getting sad about that.
*he spends every single day with her, anywhere from 6-14hours
*it's like he feels guilty if he spends time with us so has to make it up to her
*he can't spend a full day with us as a family, not even Xmas day
*we invite her to our house and to things we're going to but she refuses
*at one point he didn't eat dinner with us for over two weeks as he was with her
*they send literal pages of gushing to each other every single day about how much they love each other and the kids they're going to have 😳
*her mum seems to encourage it (the intensity) which doesn't help
*the Mum, who is 50yo, has texted him (in reply to his messages) "thank you my beautiful James Arthur, you're so adorable" along with a kissy face emoji (not his real name obviously)

We're happy for him to spend time with her and don't stop him much, but it's getting to be too much. We miss him and sometimes want to see him too.
He seems to know it's not right but 'loves her', and I remember young love, we're only in our 30's, so we're happy to be flexible but it still feels very unhealthy to us.
We also don't want to alienate him.

So AIBU and how to we put some boundaries in place, because he clearly doesn't know how to!

Oh gawd, this made all the hairs on my arms stand up - what a horrible situation your DS is in!

She sounds massively possessive and emotionally abusive and your son is going to be alienated from his friends and family by her, if she continues to get her own way.

From reading all your posts, as someone else has said, it looks like her father has a bit more influence (for good) so if he can be kept "on side" and maybe start standing up to his spoilt princess daughter, it would help?

Ideally she needs to move on and find someone else - it will hurt initially but god, he'll feel better after the initial hurt wears off and he can take control of his own life again!

I'm really angry on your behalf that her mother, in particular, has facilitated her daughter's abysmal behaviour, although obvs the father hasn't been all good either, especially not with this "holiday together" situation.

I hope he comes back in one piece, emotionally - and I really hope she dumps him permanently because he needs to get free of her one way or another. IF only he could be brought to the point of pissing her off without fear and taking whatever comes.

I do fear for you/him that she may become pregnant deliberately to keep hold of him - this happened to a friend of mine's son, who was with a girl who was very bad for him (although not so controlling) - it would be devastating for all concerned.

I just hope and pray that either she finds another patsy to cater to her every whim, and drops your son, or the scales fall from his eyes and he chucks her.

You sound balanced and sensible OP, but I would definitely seek help from an outside agency.

I'm sure he'll come back as he will realise that a healthy happy family (one in which he grew up) looks very different to what he is living now.

My husband was in a relationship like this for nearly 7 years when he was young. He felt pressured into getting engaged to her at 18 but once he got into his 20’s he found the courage to end it.

He’s not particularly assertive but eventually she just got too much, constant arguing and accusations but also pressuring him to start a family with her (Luckily he was on the ball and did not let that happen.)

Unfortunately, if there’s sex involved it can cloud judgment. Especially when teenagers. And while I hope it doesn’t last as long as it did with my other half for his sake, it will almost certainly run its course. As hard as it is to watch, he needs to see it for himself and hit his limit. In fact, I’ve seen this recently with a friend. She was warned that she was in a controlling relationship, but it meant nothing. She had to hit her limit.

I am absolutely at a loss to understand why you aren't going absolutely batshit at this stupid little twat.

And yes, before anyone says it, I have RTFT, and indeed posted before.

That this piece of shit thinks she can contact YOU directly, and use that to taunt you as a threat as to what she will do to YOUR SON in terms of further abuse if you don't do as she demands, is just incredible!

You've tried being nice about things - which was completely wrong and pointless - and I know others have egged you on here with the "oh, you can't be too hard, you'll push him away..." bullshit. To what avail?

Maybe it's the hard nosed, working class northerner in me but I'd be replying to this little twat's messages and telling her I want to see her one-on-one. No ifs, not buts. She will either shit herself, or she'll be brazen enough to actually meet, in which case she'd be left in doubt know that I would knock her head clean off her shoulders if she abused my child or pissed me off any more.

I mean seriously, if this was a BOY abusing a GIRL in this way and the boy was messaging the girl's father, taunting him..?

I don't know a single man who wouldn't knock the boy into the middle of next week and to hell with the consequences.

DO SOMETHING before it's too late.

Yep, absolutely agree with Sofia

I do like Cameocat's idea. Would the school be willing to do a lesson on healthy relationships? Even just a video in assembly letting them know it is not healthy to be isolated from your family and friends. It would be a lot easier to hear if he didn't think he was being singled out.

I have to agree with SofiaMichelle

"I don't know a single man who wouldn't knock the boy into the middle of next week, and to hell with the consequences."

My own father walked in on my ex, when he just about to hit me, (me and my ex were a bit older though). He knocked seven shades of shite out of him.

I couldn't honestly say I wouldn't physically harm anyone, over a certain age, that was abusing my child, in any way shape or form, never mind them taunting me about it.

Yes we have spoken to him about abusive relationships, I have explicitly told him he is in an abusive relationship

Then you sent him on a holiday with her, the person you say is abusing him. Do you not see how your wet lettuce approach to this must be confusing, that she can't be that bad if you wave him off on holidays with her? What happens if you say "No" to your son and this girl OP? They strop and then what? What actually happens if you say No and keep on saying No? Strops, tantrums, being a mardy arse but then what? Does the sky fall in, global nuclear disaster, is one of her temper tantrums responsible for Covid 19?

You just don't want to be the bad guy here, but your son is relying on someone to stand up for him, so stand up for him, be the bad guy. He doesn't want to go to counselling, why does he get a choice? Who pays his school fees, for his food, for his clothing, for his hobbies, for his mobile, you sit him down and tell him as a part of your family you have a responsibility to provide those things for him but he also has a responsibility to his family and his current choice is harming the happiness of the rest of the family, so counselling it is. read all the messages here from people in similar situations, five years, ten years, abusive marriages before they finally got out, are you waiting until he gets this girl pregnant before you will act decisively. Do something.

Given where you are with this, OP, you need to guide the lad to realise for himself that this isn't what he wants. And know what is ok to put up with. Very important to keep lines of communication open as the first priority. That means biting your tongue about what you think of the situation, but making factual statements for him to assess.

"I wish she spoke to you more nicely. I found those messages upsetting. What do you think?" is the strongest statement to make him. Don't tell him what to believe or do. Let him decide what he wants to do and you will always listen & try to help him make decisions he can be happy with. He has to find his own values and logic to give him the courage to not put up with crap in a relationship.

Sounds awful & 2bh, I'm glad it's not a problem I've had (I probably raised more selfish kids than OP did). I probably would let it slip to "She shouldn't treat you like that" but would mostly try to stay away from those statements since not super helpful.

@Dontbeme

Yes we have spoken to him about abusive relationships, I have explicitly told him he is in an abusive relationship

Then you sent him on a holiday with her, the person you say is abusing him. Do you not see how your wet lettuce approach to this must be confusing, that she can't be that bad if you wave him off on holidays with her? What happens if you say "No" to your son and this girl OP? They strop and then what? What actually happens if you say No and keep on saying No? Strops, tantrums, being a mardy arse but then what? Does the sky fall in, global nuclear disaster, is one of her temper tantrums responsible for Covid 19?

You just don't want to be the bad guy here, but your son is relying on someone to stand up for him, so stand up for him, be the bad guy. He doesn't want to go to counselling, why does he get a choice? Who pays his school fees, for his food, for his clothing, for his hobbies, for his mobile, you sit him down and tell him as a part of your family you have a responsibility to provide those things for him but he also has a responsibility to his family and his current choice is harming the happiness of the rest of the family, so counselling it is. read all the messages here from people in similar situations, five years, ten years, abusive marriages before they finally got out, are you waiting until he gets this girl pregnant before you will act decisively. Do something.

If she does this, she risks him leaving home and moving in with the gf, which would be 10 times worse.

Never mind the ''drip, drip drip'' approach - give your son an ultimatum - her or his family. Don't carry on like this. ''Wet lettuce'' did someone say?

I’m really surprised also that you’ve allowed him to go away with her and her family knowing the emotional abuse to your son and how her family treat her and him.
Can you imagine if she made an accusation against your son?
She uses emotional manipulation to get what she wants so this is a possibility.

He needs to understand that in a healthy relationship you can have your own hobbies and friends outside of that. Why are you even continuing allowing him to see her during covid and rules?
You could’ve used that to your advantage to get him out of this mess.

‘ Who pays his school fees, for his food, for his clothing, for his hobbies, for his mobile, you sit him down and tell him as a part of your family you have a responsibility to provide those things for him but he also has a responsibility to his family ’

^ no, to himself.
He is in an abusive relationship and will lose his friends and interests if this continues, which will lead to all sorts of mental health battles for him in the future. I would’ve knocked this on the head ages ago.

Sorry one more thing, I think you said the mum picks him up from school. I would ban her from doing this and tell the school this. I would arrange that I am there to collect him. I know he won't like it but the mum is absolutely allowing her daughter to do this. Is there a way of reporting the mum? I'd definitely be involving the Safeguarding lead at school (reporting both your son and also his girlfriend- she needs help too).

The worst thing you can do is try to impose boundaries, it will make the whole thing very romeo and juliet to them! Forbidden love will just make it seem so much more appealing. Setting dates for family times etc is fine but limiting when they see each other could cause problems. I say this as someone who had that all encompassing first love which was unhealthy, obsessive and emotionally draining. Just let it run its course. Am now in a healthy long term relationship and look back and cringe!

@tara66

Never mind the ''drip, drip drip'' approach - give your son an ultimatum - her or his family. Don't carry on like this. ''Wet lettuce'' did someone say?

So he chooses her and is then trapped in an abusive relationship. Not a great plan.

Hi OP, I’m sorry this is still dragging on. Can I suggest you ask your son about whether he’d do the same things to her as she does to him? That is, does he have a mood when she won’t do what he wants (if he’s even done moods like this?), does he stop her doing any hobbies, does he stop her/delay her going to work, does he threaten her parents the way she threatens his etc. Then ask him why he is ok with her doing things to him that he would never do himself to her. As in he would never interfere with her friends or family because he cares what she thinks, but she does it because she doesn’t care what he thinks. I was in an abusive marriage my entire adult life, more than 20 years, and my takeaway is that anyone that does or says what I wouldn’t even think to do is a shit person and not worth my time. Being coercively controlled is not only hard to recognise but for an empathic person is a challenge to fix/placate that person to make them happy because you care about their feelings. It’s quite something else to realise they don’t reciprocate that for you and walk away. I didn’t have anyone prompting me to compare his treatment of me to my own values but this would have fast tracked my own thinking if I did.

Fully agree with all that chunkymonkey101 said. It would be very easy to handle this badly & drive him into her arms even deeper.

ddraiggoch He is already stuck in an abusive relationship and his mum has just waved him off on holidays with his abuser. What his parents have tried so far is not working so why keep doing the same thing?

@chunkymonkey101

The worst thing you can do is try to impose boundaries, it will make the whole thing very romeo and juliet to them! Forbidden love will just make it seem so much more appealing. Setting dates for family times etc is fine but limiting when they see each other could cause problems. I say this as someone who had that all encompassing first love which was unhealthy, obsessive and emotionally draining. Just let it run its course. Am now in a healthy long term relationship and look back and cringe!

I agree with this. I am certain it will run its course. He is only 16 and this will serve as a huge learning curve. Temptation is bound to come his way in the coming years and show him there is far better out there.

Continue to be supportive and never 'told you so'. Wait for cues for him to offload to you and keep instilling how much he is worth.

Your first breakup is always the longest most drawn out. In future he will cut his losses much sooner!

@Dontbeme

ddraiggoch He is already stuck in an abusive relationship and his mum has just waved him off on holidays with his abuser. What his parents have tried so far is not working so why keep doing the same thing?

Going on a four-day holiday is bad enough but the poster actually suggested something which would see him being waved off for years.

I'll give you a different viewpoint. I was in a toxic relationship when I was the same age as your DS. To his family I was the GF (although his family was very strict while I was not as much of a psycho).

He's going to be 18 in less than 2 years. You need to let him make his own choices, even if that includes not wanting to go on holiday.

Right now he's going through drama at home because he sees you as the bad guy, drama from the GF, it's just drama all round.

Just leave him to it. Eventually he will get sick of it. Once he goes to uni or she does surely it will naturally fizzle out too?

I know it's hard but he's too old to be told he can't see her etc. You're just going to put a strain on your relationship.

Support him, be there for him, don't make comments about his relationship. He might be unhappy either way but at least he won't blame you for his unhappiness and will see that she's the one to blame.

Ok, so DS is back!
He had a good time and we are happy for that and so happy to see him.

She of course was on her best behaviour and not an argument to be had, I guess when he's away from his family, friends, sports, job, Xbox etc and with her 24/7 then she has nothing to be upset over 🤷🏻‍♀️

They also apparently had a big meaningful chat about what's been happening and he tells me he thinks 'he's made her realise and there's definite progress'.
So she's told him she's going to start speaking to us again and is taking an interest in his sport etc (quick turn around there 🙄).

This is nearly worse, as he's come back so loved up and she's promised him she will change so any progress he made with seeing through her behaviour is gone, it's like going back to square one!
My DH is telling me not to worry as he believes she won't even last a week, I guess we will see!

You are doing so well to bite your tongue through all of this! I would be tempted to call her bluff by inviting her to dinner but I expect she will show her true colours again soon enough. At least DS is happy in the meantime...