My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (and her mum)

[workworkworkugh]

I'm going to write this in point form, I just want to get some other unbiased opinions on my son and his gf of 5 months.
Our point of view is that the relationship is not a healthy one.
We understand that at this age teens start to move away from the family unit but we feel this is above the realms of 'normal'

*she gets mad at him if she doesn't have his full attention.
*she gets mad at him if he hangs out with his mates, so he hasn't hung out with them for 3+ months.
*last time he did she dumped him.
*she cries if he's not at school
*she gets mad at him for playing his Xbox (and not answering her call on the first ring)
*he got a new Xbox for Xmas and she's already making noises about him playing it too much, also about his sport that he loves playing is starting up again soon and she's getting sad about that.
*he spends every single day with her, anywhere from 6-14hours
*it's like he feels guilty if he spends time with us so has to make it up to her
*he can't spend a full day with us as a family, not even Xmas day
*we invite her to our house and to things we're going to but she refuses
*at one point he didn't eat dinner with us for over two weeks as he was with her
*they send literal pages of gushing to each other every single day about how much they love each other and the kids they're going to have 😳
*her mum seems to encourage it (the intensity) which doesn't help
*the Mum, who is 50yo, has texted him (in reply to his messages) "thank you my beautiful James Arthur, you're so adorable" along with a kissy face emoji (not his real name obviously)

We're happy for him to spend time with her and don't stop him much, but it's getting to be too much. We miss him and sometimes want to see him too.
He seems to know it's not right but 'loves her', and I remember young love, we're only in our 30's, so we're happy to be flexible but it still feels very unhealthy to us.
We also don't want to alienate him.

So AIBU and how to we put some boundaries in place, because he clearly doesn't know how to!

OP, I have no further advice but just wanted to say that I hope he breaks free and that things turn out ok for you both.

Apart from all the insulting opinions how awful or controlling the poor girl is I'd rather have much more realistic opinion: ok, come on, you all have forgotten the drive to have a boyfriend and dreaming about your own family at this age?! You never did this, you never had hormones, you never had teenage boyfriend and sex?!

The girl apparently just want her own life a bit too early and her own family, she means obviously she would like to have kids with the boy.

And there are only 2 years left until he got to 18. Why would you ruin his relationship now and your own relationship with him? This is why he is 16, these two years until he got to 18 are vital for him to build his own independence, not being torn apart between the two females in his life lol.

@BeverlyHa I'm not sure if you haven't read the thread (or at least OP's posts) or just spectacularly missed the point. This 'poor girl' is cutting the DS off from him family, friends, hobbies, and being extremely controlling & using emotional blackmail to her her own war

BeverlyHa
It's way beyond what you have written . Not sure if you have read the whole.thread but this isn't within the boundaries of normal.

@BeverlyHa

Apart from all the insulting opinions how awful or controlling the poor girl is I'd rather have much more realistic opinion: ok, come on, you all have forgotten the drive to have a boyfriend and dreaming about your own family at this age?! You never did this, you never had hormones, you never had teenage boyfriend and sex?!

The girl apparently just want her own life a bit too early and her own family, she means obviously she would like to have kids with the boy.

And there are only 2 years left until he got to 18. Why would you ruin his relationship now and your own relationship with him? This is why he is 16, these two years until he got to 18 are vital for him to build his own independence, not being torn apart between the two females in his life lol.

This is emotional abuse and coercive control. There are no excuses.

What sort of adult uses "lol" to end a sentence? Particularly one discussing such a serious topic?

Reading your posts the impression I get is your ds is just another want that her mother and father can’t say no to.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t some sort of pushing the two of them together by the mother especially. I think she is thinking wedding bells and babies and how romantic things would be and giving her dd everything she wants.

Have you ever asked your son what he thinks his future will be if he is only allowed to do what she wants and he gets punished if he doesn’t do as he is told.

Playing it forward if he ends up with her how will that work out if he can’t come round to yours and she refuses to come to meet you.

If they get married will you be invited to the wedding. Will you see him again. Will that be it as far as your relationship, his friends and his sport is concerned.
These are the things he needs to think about. Especially if he is sleeping with her.
Will he ever be truly free or truly happy again because it will all depend on what mood she is in and what she will allow him to do. It is already like that now so what does he think will change in the future.
She sounds very abusive and very disturbed and lacking in any confidence.

Doesn’t he get bored of her sounding off if he puts a foot wrong.
Does he get some perverse pleasure being a hen pecked bf stuck with his gf and her mother. Without a moment to himself.

Maybe he enjoys being punished for going out with his friends and doing his sport. I would ask him whether he is in some sort of teenage BDSM triangle with his gf and her mother or father as facilitators

You're faced with the dilemma of wanting to change his behaviour in order to protect him from what you can see is an unhealthy and disordered relationship. Unfortunately he's well embedded in this and his (and her) narrative is that he's in love and you are the unreasonable parents who just hate his girlfriend.
It is possible that some of his behaviours may be a reaction to you? At a time when he is starting to become independent from his parents, his journey is now from you to her, instead of from you into the outside world (if you see what I mean?) And you will not be a safe place if he fears the "I told you so" from you when he extricates himself from her. Retreating is hard for adolescents and it's possible that you may be sabotaging your relationship with him in your panic and anxiety over their relationship?
I'd suggest that you need to back right off - no more discussions - earnest or angry - with him. Obviously a 'watchful waiting' but being very discrete. He knows what you think but she is more powerful in his world than you at the moment. When the light eventually dawns he needs to be able to open up and he may not chose you if he's conflicted about your likely response? And that could leave him emotionally isolated if he's abandoned his friends.

Your only choice is to change your behaviour and see if that gets a different reaction from him - as all the interventions / conversations you've had have had no impact on him, then perhaps it's time to step back and watch it unfold while ensuring that he finds home a stress free and accepting place to be?

I can not tell you the anxiety that rose up in me whilst reading that, DS had a very intense relationship when he was 17, it lasted one long hard year.

I can not tell you what went on because some of it is too outing.

It will pass, possibly like kidney stones, but it will pass.

As the GF's father sent him home one night for his meal , it seems he has more influence than her mother . He listened to you so hopefully he will be watching their behaviour.

However, I'm sure the GF will be on her best behaviour as she's got her way but maybe she'll slip up as the holiday is for a few days.

I haven't read the whole thread but I agree with pp who've said that his friends are the key here - he needs to spend proper time with them, hear about their relationships and realise how different they are to his.

It sounds to me like your DS is starting to cotton on more and more that what his girlfriend is doing isn't right or normal, and he's fighting his corner a little.

I genuinely don't think there is anything you can do but wait. You have reassured him you're there to support him, let him know what she's doing isn't right and I'm sure his mates are doing the same. Hopefully he is now starting down the road of realising this isn't how he wants to live his life.

Feel for you OP. I think at this stage you're doing absolutely all you can, and her parents seem understanding (although the father a little less of a 'yes man' than the mum).

I don't know if there is anything more you can do - just be there to listen when your DS is frustrated, be a shoulder to cry on and try not to say anything that can be read as accusatory or judging the girlfriend - whether or not well meaning it could trigger things, so just be supportive of your DS. Hopefully as sport picks up and he gets more time with friends he'll see the need for any relationship to have balance and this is clearly not.

@nancywhitehead

To some extent it sounds like normal teenage behaviour in relationships, but the important thing when thinking about whether you should get involved at all, is how it's effecting him?

You have to expect that once kids reach this age they are less likely to want to be involved in family stuff... that will probably come back in a few years time but they usually need some space to work things out.

You could just have a chat with him about how all of this is affecting him, if it is bothering him or not. If it's not bothering him then, sorry, but your issues with it are not really relevant - you have to let him grow up and do this stuff. If it is bothering him then you could have a chat with him about how he might approach it with her and how he might talk to her about her intensity.

Basically as a parent, you have to such up your own feelings about him not attending family events and not being as engaged with you at this age. It's about him and supporting him in whatever way he needs.

Have you actually RTFT?

This is no 'normal' teenage relationship

Much as I don't agree with playing one against another, it would be lovely if a really nice girl came along and caught his eye...

Hopefully four solid days of her constant shitty behaviour will put him off her ... fingers crossed in any case!

That’s a good point actually @DartmoorDoughnut finger crossed she pushes her luck too far!

@workworkworkugh can you organise a boys trip for him? Camping or whatever?

I agree with what one of the PPs suggested, talk to someone (who specialises in DV not in family/relationship counselling and not headspace) and train yourselves up.

I wish you hadn’t let him go on that holiday with her and her dad, because she refused to go without him. If you’d said no them her father would have had to deal with it, but you’ve all given in to her behaviour again.
Time for a round the table talk with her and her mother, whether she likes it or not. She needs to be told that you won’t tolerate the impact her behaviour is having on your whole family.
It’s very likely that he may not want to be in the relationship with her, but he’s scared of the fallout from her if he finishes with her. His perception may be that the rubbish relationship is the lesser of the evils.

She’s behaving like this because every adult in her life is allowing her to.

I’ve been there, although not to the extent you are, with a girlfriend my son had at a similar age, and my son was grateful that I wasn’t scared to be the “bad” one and stand up to her.

You need to protect your son before this screws him up and he ends up in abusive relationships all his life

can you organise a boys trip for him? Camping or whatever

Somewhere where there isn’t a phone signal.

YANBU, she sounds awful.

op, I have read the whole thread but it has been over a long time so can't remember if we covered this earlier.

Can you speak to the school about implementing some workshops on healthy relationships etc. If it is aimed at a whole group rather than him it may sow some seeds of doubt. It would also be beneficial to them all.

Fingers crossed this holiday makes him realise how awful she is and this is the beginning of the end.

I think you have been tolerant, sensitive and respectful to date and you must be pulling your hair out.

The only thing I can think of that might get through to him is some kind of 'intervention' by his mates. Like you would do for any addict (because this is like an addiction).

It would take planning and an element of what he might call out as 'betrayal' on your part initially, but if three of his best mates turned up in a car with a packed bag and took him away for a weekend to talk to him about their concerns (and they will 100% have them), he MIGHT listen.

GF has made you the enemy so he believes your advice comes with an agenda. An intervention by his mates cannot be viewed like that.

I honestly think this is where I'd go next.

Just to offer a hopefully hopeful perspective here, I was in a similarly controlling relationship age 17-21. It was intense and there was nothing my mum could have done to change my mind. My confidence was in shreds and I was similarly punished for standing up to him.
All I can say is, I eventually realised the controlling behaviour distracted me from the fact that he was up to no good (shock horror!). My mum was there to wipe the tears, and promise me I'd never again cry one more year over him.
I ditched him, never looked back, had the time of my life in my last year of uni. And learnt a very valuable lesson; now married to the most wonderful man, as I swiftly realised what I very much didn't want in future relationships. Its not always that easy, but my point is (I feel) there is very little you can do as a parent to quell rampant teenage emotions. But you can be there to pick up the pieces, instill a sense of security and be his rock to come back to. He will soon see what's out there if he breaks free

@Bythemillpond

can you organise a boys trip for him? Camping or whatever

Somewhere where there isn’t a phone signal.

He wouldn't go though would he?? He didn't even want to go on the family holiday because he'd be away from the gf!

I think just see how it plays out now his sport is starting up again. Hopefully he'll get loads of enjoyment out of being back with his friends and the cracks are already beginning to show as he knows she's out of line now.