My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (and her mum)

[workworkworkugh]

I'm going to write this in point form, I just want to get some other unbiased opinions on my son and his gf of 5 months.
Our point of view is that the relationship is not a healthy one.
We understand that at this age teens start to move away from the family unit but we feel this is above the realms of 'normal'

*she gets mad at him if she doesn't have his full attention.
*she gets mad at him if he hangs out with his mates, so he hasn't hung out with them for 3+ months.
*last time he did she dumped him.
*she cries if he's not at school
*she gets mad at him for playing his Xbox (and not answering her call on the first ring)
*he got a new Xbox for Xmas and she's already making noises about him playing it too much, also about his sport that he loves playing is starting up again soon and she's getting sad about that.
*he spends every single day with her, anywhere from 6-14hours
*it's like he feels guilty if he spends time with us so has to make it up to her
*he can't spend a full day with us as a family, not even Xmas day
*we invite her to our house and to things we're going to but she refuses
*at one point he didn't eat dinner with us for over two weeks as he was with her
*they send literal pages of gushing to each other every single day about how much they love each other and the kids they're going to have 😳
*her mum seems to encourage it (the intensity) which doesn't help
*the Mum, who is 50yo, has texted him (in reply to his messages) "thank you my beautiful James Arthur, you're so adorable" along with a kissy face emoji (not his real name obviously)

We're happy for him to spend time with her and don't stop him much, but it's getting to be too much. We miss him and sometimes want to see him too.
He seems to know it's not right but 'loves her', and I remember young love, we're only in our 30's, so we're happy to be flexible but it still feels very unhealthy to us.
We also don't want to alienate him.

So AIBU and how to we put some boundaries in place, because he clearly doesn't know how to!

" he was quite visibly upset and angry, clenching his hair in his fists as clearly he was so anxious about me exposing her behaviour and the repercussions."

So he knows that he's being treated badly-but wants to put up with it why?

Because the good bits are worth it?

Because it's better than no girlfriend?

She'll make his life a misery at school if they split?

It does seem best to limit their time as much as you can so that he sees his friends & does his sports & realises that there would be life without her.

This is so stressful to read, OP, so I can only imagine how stressful it is living it. What do you think the outcome would be if you imposed a week's ban on going to her house to give you all some breathing space? Would he ignore it and go anyway? The reason I ask is that if the mother ignore it too and picked him up from school, you could then talk to the school about what's been going on and get some support. It might be an inflammatory move, but as you've pretty much said yourself, the way all you adults and your DS are tiptoeing around this 15-year-old girl is insane. I think drastic action is called for now.

The mother wants your son around because he makes her life easier. If she’s happy she’s not kicking off at the mother.

There’s no point in speaking to her because she’s benefiting from it.

I would seriously look into getting him away from her. Maybe book something for a few weeks. Take his phone. Find somewhere without the internet. What ever you need to do. She’ll find someone else quite quickly.

@titchy

Imagine your son was a daughter. What would your reaction be if she had a boyfriend that was doing this sort of thing to her? I imagine (hope) you'd have got the police involved. Why is this different because he's a boy?

Plus, this ^. Your approach to extricating your son from this relationship should be exactly what you would do with a daughter.

I would back off now from more conversations with your son. You also can’t really force him to join you for fun days out, that goes with the territory of having a teenager. Instead start building evidence like taking screen shots of his messages (you should have access to his phone if you fund it) and keep a diary. Then go back to the school with the proof your son is being abused under their watch by one of their pupils and ask what they’re going to do about it. My kids go to a good school and if a parent went in with this kind of concern, there’s no way it would be brushed to one side. It’s just as serious as bullying.

My heart is racing in horror just treading this, I can only imagine what you are going through.

My DB is going through a horrific separation with his STBEW - he was subject to similar abuse and coercive control for years but nothing we could say or do made any difference. Sadly there are also children involved.

Do whatever it takes to get your DS away from this girl and her mother whilst you still have some influence over his life.

@titchy

Imagine your son was a daughter. What would your reaction be if she had a boyfriend that was doing this sort of thing to her? I imagine (hope) you'd have got the police involved. Why is this different because he's a boy?

This!

FFS. This is your child, OP.

You don't just abandon them to the abuse of another family.

If it means telling him he's not seeing her, then do it. If to facilitate it that means moving him to a different school, then do it.

He is a child. You are his parent. He doesn't get to choose to destroy his life like this at 16.

Would you so half-heartedly try to cajole him into stopping using drugs?

"he said "mum why did you have to do that, I'm going to wake up to angry messages from her and things were finally good and now she'll make my life hell for the next week"

I'd be pointing out that you aren't responsible for her outbursts which are extremely unreasonable. You are allowed to be upset to see your son crying and as a parent you don't want that to continue and you did what you thought was best. I'd apologise that he's upset but everyone is tiptoeing around her constantly and you are worried about him. I'd also say that living relationships aren't this way and you are worried about him losing himself.

Tell him you've got his back and ask his of there's anything he'd like you to do together on this. Push back gently on any unreasonable requests.

This is terrible. Have you considered moving him to a different school? Perhaps say that you can't afford for him to stay where he is?

Bashing the op, who is obviously having a horrid time and who has already approached school, parent line, her child repeatedly and the other parents isn't going to help.

Shouting outside school will only drive him to his gf's home. How many teenagers have you heard off that have upped sticks and moved in with a partner' parent or a friend's parent at this age because things aren't good at home. That could be a greater risk here. I can totally see why op is treading carefully.

There is plenty of info out there about how he'd it is for adults to recognise and escape coercive control relationships. As a first ever teen relationship that's going to be harder.

So sorry you are going through this op. I have no good advice but just wanted to sound support as this situation must be appallingly difficult to navigate

You would appear to have coercive control going on. Do you have evidence, can you report to the police? I would certainly report this to the school, you need to be using words like "serious safeguarding issue" and telling them you are going to be reporting it to the police. It's a type of bullying and harassment.

We he be willing to look at the freedom program? I used to have a "men's" version but I'm not sure they do anymore.
It's something worth looking into for him, if he is willing.

@workworkworkugh
*@titchy @Notaroadrunner how though? I work and need to pick up his younger brother first, she's at the same school and her Mother is always there before me? We can tell him, but we can't exactly force him to get in the car.

@workworkworkugh Yes you can force him into the car. You’re his parents and he’s your underaged child. You and your husband need to get tough and be adults here. Your poor child is being abused and at this point you’re bordering on negligence. I hated to write that sentence but it’s true. A social worker and a therapist would both look at you sideways, his parents, for letting this carry on as long as it has.

You don’t get rid of abusive people by being nice to them. You need to stand ground and go cold turkey. This why so many abuse victims flee in the middle of night. It’s version of going cold turkey.

Your son is literally crying out for help. He can’t do this by himself. He needs his parents to step in forcefully and speak for him. You need to be the adults here and take charge. Get the police and the school involved. The police will be able to talk to the parents and tell them to keep away from your son, especially if you file for a restraining order. You’re both doing your son a grave disservice and participating his abuse if you let this carry on.

I feel so sorry for you Op. We had practically the same situation with our son at the same age .The relationship lasted four years and nearly destroyed our family .My son who is now 22 years has never really recovered . We had to get the police involved and a barring order in the end ,take him out of school and send him out of the country to his grandparents.

In my experience of raising teenagers, a couple of points:

• Especially boys; their sheer size, development and physicality often overtakes their emotional age and makes it hard to remember just how young and helpless they are. An immature child in the body of a young man with limited social expertise. Easy to find themselves out of their depth in a situation they can't handle and don't know how to extricate themselves from.

  Time to play the Lone Ranger parent, rescue them by providing an ironclad " out" that they can blame on you " My hideous fascist control-freak killjoy parents have GROUNDED me; God they've even confiscated my phone. SO UNFAIR . I'm in total isolation. "

     Safe at home alone,  much to their secret relief.
  

I have read all your posts OP

And I would put money on it that most of the time your DS is making out the girlfriend is so much worse than she actually is to avoid doing family stuff

I mean, for example, * DS feels he can't just come home though when it's like that as that will make her angrier.*

He doesn’t want to come home. So he tries this tactic.

Tell your Son HE will be attending his sports.
That you think he needs to agree compromises with his girlfriend.
That he can direct her rants to you. Do not engage.
IF you can get him back to his sports and his friends it will help him break free from her hold.
Right now she is SCARED that if she gives him space he will leave her.
His mates will encourage him to leave her.

I feel upset reading this and so sorry for you and your son. I see a lot of posters on here recommending the freedom programme to women who are experiencing abusive relationships - is this something you could try with your son? Could you try asking your son to imagine that you were behaving in the way his girlfriend is to his Dad and what would he think? Would he be supportive of that behaviour? Would he feel sorry for his Dad and want you to stop? He needs to see it as an outsider looking in as he's too involved to make sense of things. I would also ask for a sit down talk with your son, his girlfriend and her parents and get them to understand the effect it's having on your son. If they don't agree, try doing it through school. Flag it up as a concern for your son's mental health. And don't let her Mum take control of picking him up from everywhere, step in and tell her she is not allowed. He is only 15 and still in your care. She needs to respect this and back off. She doesn't care about your son, she only cares about her daughter getting what she wants. You need to step in now.

And I would put money on it that most of the time your DS is making out the girlfriend is so much worse than she actually is to avoid doing family stuff

Absolutely crap!

I have three teens and they never use this as an excuse - I can come because my boy friend or girlfriend kicks off? Who does that?

They may say they have plans or want to meeting friends some something but never that they other person is awful and would kick off!

I am sorry if you have already mentioned this OP but what point are you at in the school year? Would it be at all feasible to Go away somewhere (Covid restrictions permitting obvs) for a couple of weeks so that you can spend time as a family just to give your poor lad some breathing space? Could you all go and visit a grandparent in another part of the country (one with poor internet?!) for a couple of weeks? Or just a holiday?

God, this makes such terrible reading, I can't imagine how stressed you are.

I agree with PPs, you need to completely stop the relationship. Tell him "enough is enough, you are being abused even if you can't see it now and we are not prepared to watch it happen". I would tell him, her and her mum that all contact stops now and you are prepared to get the police/social services/ anyone else you can think of involved.... however I have two boys of a similar age and one would be accepting, the other would probably run away. Only you know how he will react.

I had a terrible relationship at that age but hid it from my parents. It blew up massively and had a horrific ending... my biggest regret is not letting my family get involved. In hindsight they would have split us up but I could have blamed them but it would have been a way our for me.

The only good thing is that you are aware. Good luck, I really hope you can separate them.

@BluebellsGreenbells

And I would put money on it that most of the time your DS is making out the girlfriend is so much worse than she actually is to avoid doing family stuff

Absolutely crap!

I have three teens and they never use this as an excuse - I can come because my boy friend or girlfriend kicks off? Who does that?

They may say they have plans or want to meeting friends some something but never that they other person is awful and would kick off!

Perhaps because you are much more relaxed than the OP about “family time”

Tell your DS this is a relationship from hell. Does he think it is something a ''normal'' (average?) adult would tolerate? No it is not. But perhaps he actually likes and wants to be dominated? He is 16 you say.

It's so tricky. If you try to stop it by force and he runs away to live with them it would be 10x worse because not only would he be there, but he also might feel too ashamed to come back even if he wanted to. This might be more problematic long term and cut him off from his support (his family).

If you just give them your blessing and let him do whatever he wants, perhaps he would be more likely to stop it on his own terms once there's nothing to fight you about, but the reverse is he would likely end up living there at least in the short term. It's a huge gamble and you couldn't reimpose rules once you'd takem them away.

I don't think there is an obvious solution one way or another so the posters saying why haven't you done X or Y I think are missing the complexity of it.

It's clearly a really awful situation.

Hi OP,

I would arrange to meet gf's Mother, tell her again that you have rules in your home that not only relate to spending family time together but also relate to values & how people treat others including friendships & relationships. That you are concerned that there are some (not all!) unhealthy aspects to this relationship but they are only teenagers & finding their boundaries (blah blah etc)...BUT you seen & heard enough & you intend to speak to them both together about it & you are being courteous telling her in advance as it is her DD concerned.
And I would tell son & gf to be in yours at X time on X day & I would go through it with them...your core family values, how people who care about each other should behave, speak to each other, how relationships are based on trust & respect not threats & demands, give them examples of the disrespect shown to you by each of them & to each other (albeit more her to him!). Yes he rants & raves at you & 'hates' you but he is, or seems to be, following your basic rules...home on Fri for dinner, not staying over when not allowed etc. So he is trying but getting manipulated by her. He needs your help with this. I would get it across v clearly that he is your son & he is your priority & you will support a relationship that is respectful, loving & kind & they need to stop creating this high drama, it is childish & unhealthy. I wouldn't give a toss about GF going on a rant....if she speaks to her DM like that, she can go home & do that all day long, she won't speak to you like that in your home. I had something similar with my son...altho not anywhere as extreme...GF wanted him around all the time, invited him on hols, supposed to be home by whatever time or available for family time inevitably the text would come changing the goalposts because her parents said staying later or joining them was ok. I did as above & met parents, said look...you are v welcoming, thank you for including but he has his own family, we have our own rules etc & basically told them to stop undermining me to my own son. And I told DS & GF together that he is in exam year (she wasn't) & I wasn't putting up with disruption & drama (from her!). I didn't dislike the GF...she was just full on & high drama... but v v spoilt. Once I called them out on it, things began to settle. DS wasn't happy that I was going to do it, I had threatened a couple of times when I was pissed off at behaviours. But he sees now that I did him a favour...I think he found it all very stressful & couldn't quite cope with all the demands, it was easier to give in all the time but my relationship with him is solid, I am the one he could accuse of being unfair & controlling & I wouls still be there, going nowhere. Persevere OP, keep the rules & boundaries in place, he is still following them & still needs them.

And I think involving police or social services is over the top.....it is difficult with teens, I'm so grateful those years are over for our family... he needs you, step in & show him you are in his corner no matter what. He'll realise it in years to come.