Is anyone applying actual LOGIC to Christmas or just blindly following covid rules??

[Christmasisallaroundus]

I’m not changing my Christmas plans. I’m due to go to my parents 50 mins drive away. Myself & DH WFH full time. No DC. We’ve been isolating for 2 weeks in advance of Christmas. We are getting private covid tests on 21st - waiting for presumably negative results on 23rd then will travel home. Parents also not working and have been isolating pretty much since March. Will be home 24th-27th. No plans to leave the house. Then straight back to our house to isolate again for the foreseeable as no plans to see anyone.

Why would we change our plans and not go just because ‘it’s against the rules’. I don’t understand those saying they can’t go how due to rules changing.

If you are working out and about you shouldn’t have been mixing in the 1st place as you’re higher risk! Why are the rules influencing what you do - surely you should be using common sense!

I’m afraid you’re really coming across as a bit of an arsehole, OP. I’m sure you didn’t intend to, but that’s just how it is.

I’m actually pretty sympathetic to your logic, but you’re still coming across like a wankbadger. Happy fucking Christmas 🎄

You do know that on Mumsnet you're not allowed to be in a more fortunate position than anyone else?
Where is your Christmas hair shirt? And shouldn't you be putting it on to save grannies in care homes?

If everyone thought the same way tho......?

@PickAChew thanks for your concern

I’d love to see the responses if someone posted two days ago saying ‘I’m a covid nurse and I’m finishing my shift on 23rd December and going to my parents and siblings from 24th-27th as permitted by the rules in place AIBU’ I’d wager all the same posters here would be on going insane for someone being so risky.

Yet when I make the exact same point but from a view that I’m ok to go home the red mist of irrationality descends and it turns into a rant about how over privileged I am. Thanks to those posters who attempted to actually engage with my op. You made some good points.

People 'using their common sense' is what has led all these lockdowns. They apply it on their own terms.

If one group of people break the rules, it opens the flood gates for other to do so.

Going to get a test will expose you to potential infection, which you'll have the potential to then spread.

Yet again someone else who thinks rules don’t apply to them. It doesn’t matter how careful you are the rules are rules

What happens if you break down on the way there? Or back? Or need to unexpectedly stop for something, or get involved in an accident ?

Just do the right thing, follow the rules

I’m not planning on following any rules, personally. I’m in the new tier 4. Logically the percentage of people under 60 with no underlying conditions is sub 1%, so I apply that logic to everything. I don’t mind wearing a mask. Keeps my face warm in the cold weather.
I’m starting to feel like this becoming a civil liberty issue. Amazed everyone is actually going along with this shit.

My point and point of this thread is that I thought people would be making Christmas plans based on their levels of risk and trying their best to minimise spread not based on what was ‘allowed’.

Why do we have government? Why are there any rules at all?

Why does everyone drive on the left, at no more than 30mph in a built up area?

Why don’t we all agree to pay what we think bin collection and policing and education and the NHS is “worth” to us, using common sense and logic?

Is it common sense that dictates people’s behaviour?

Give over. Bloody hell!

@Christmasisallaroundus

A lot of people replying here who seem to be confused.

I’m sorry if you work in job where it’s not safe for you to mix. But if that’s your reality you should be making Christmas plans accordingly.

Again it’s not fair but that’s how it is this year. I just can’t get over the numbers of people here who were quite happily going off and mixing until the government told them they couldn’t - even if they are working in risky areas. And on the converse side people like me who can go home safely now cancelling because of the rules.

If it makes you feel better to rant at me because you’re not in my position then by all means go ahead. My post was about the following of the rules instead of thinking logically about your situation and risk level.

@JaneTheVirgin yes if you’re risky you shouldn’t leave your house and mix over Christmas as you can spread covid. From sitting in my house with my DH 24/7 not seeing anyone I am in a safer position to mix. I’m sorry you are having a difficult time but unfortunately that’s just how it is.

You’re basically condemning medical and care staff to sitting at home for huge chunks of their life.

Agree with OP, I am in the same situation, I wfh and have been isolating, I am lucky I can do that. Me seeing my family is pretty much no risk to anyone, the government's rules are completely illogical which is why people have given up and are now using common sense.

Unfortunately, most people aren't as sensible and logical as you are. This year has shown that.

Don’t the WHO say asymptomatic spread is extremely rare? A poster upthread said 1/3. I haven’t come across that, I’d be interested to see a source.

the government's rules are completely illogical which is why people have given up and are now using common sense

Emotionally, I agree.

But on a behavioural population basis, we need rules not “common sense”.

Surely you all see that?

Because quite frankly it isn't all about you.
Your attitude stinks.

Privilege is here, and with privilege goes responsibility.

Personal responsibility
Community responsibility
Societal responsibility

Pull up your big girl pants and accept that the world does not rotate around you. Follow the same fecking rules as the proletariat that you so obviously look down upon. Nobody likes all of the rules, as a society we can grump quietly and eventually get to the other side of this.

What is allowed, is the maximum allowed.
Many people with high risk jobs manage their risk allowance by having very low risk social lives.

You must see that it has to be a blanket rule; a retraction of all meet ups Op.

Introducing caveats for people who have "isolated" "more or less been at home" or "got a test" would be a shit storm. Already people are coming out with drivel like ^Well we think we all had it March so we're still meeting up on boxing day with auntie sue. I'm applying common sense"

You can't really rely on common sense of the masses.

As it stands, your parents mental state will probably be saved by you visiting. Unless ECV then I'm surprised they have been isolating since March. They're going to be very very pleased to see you that's for sure.

100% you are applying common sense. Not even remotely unreasonable.

But how will you guarantee that you won’t be faced with a breakdown, accident, injury or other non-premeditated event which puts you at increased risk of contact with covid? No amount of common sense planning can be sure that won’t happen which is why individuals shouldn’t be able to apply their own logic to the situation, because humans always think things like that are things that happen to someone else and not to them. Nobody expects to crash or have a heart attack etc but bottom line is if anything like that happens then you are increasing the risk of covid transmission and there’s no way to apply logic in order to ensure none of those things are going to happen. The more people who follow the rules, regardless of their individual circumstances, the fewer opportunities there will be for covid to spread through the population.

I also agree with those saying that when people bend the rules to fit with their individual circumstances, however logical, they start a ripple effect of others also deciding that their individual circumstances should be exempt and that the amount of logic or risk assessment applied to each circumstance is likely to decrease the further down that ripple you go. That’s why it’s important to follow the rules and particularly irresponsible to be flouting the situation when people are breaking the rules.

I totally agree with you OP. I really don’t understand why anyone would take the risk of mixing with others unless they have isolated.

I’m CEV, and both my DH and I have been isolating for months, my DD has isolated for over 2 weeks so she could spend some time with me, she moved in on Tuesday for 10 days. It’s safe and we won’t be going anywhere. If she hadn’t isolated she would have stayed away no matter what the govt allowed.

OP you are the problem.

I totally agree with you OP

Define 'common sense' if you please, OP.

We are applying our own logic. I work in a school where we have had lots of confirmed cases. Dh works also out of the home and comes into contact with lots of people on a daily basis.
No PPE for either of us.
Therefore we were already planning not to see anyone at Christmas. Because we knew we could potentially be carrying it and not wanting to risk spreading it.
Totally get that others are living in different circumstances and so are planning on using their common sense to decide they will see family but it’s just not an option for us.
It means a very elderly relative of mine will be totally alone for Christmas when they usually come down and see us. But it just can’t happen this year.
Even if it’s ‘allowed’ just for Christmas Day. It’s not the right thing to do for us so it’s not happening.

YABU

Everybody bending or outright ignoring the rules is one of the reasons we’re in this mess.

I'm in Vancouver, by far the most populated city in British Columbia (a province with a population of about 5m).

We haven't been hit as hard as the UK. We had an initial spike where we were having about 300 cases per day in BC, then got it down to low double digits for months.

Then Halloween and Thanksgiving happened in quick succession and a lot of people decided to employ what they considered common sense. We very quickly went up to around 1,000 new cases per day (although it's now closer to 6-700). As a consequence, we have tougher rules for Christmas.

Advocates of 'common sense' ought to acknowledge that, allowing everyone to make their own 'common-sense' judgments is not really a common-sense approach.