Is anyone applying actual LOGIC to Christmas or just blindly following covid rules??

[Christmasisallaroundus]

I’m not changing my Christmas plans. I’m due to go to my parents 50 mins drive away. Myself & DH WFH full time. No DC. We’ve been isolating for 2 weeks in advance of Christmas. We are getting private covid tests on 21st - waiting for presumably negative results on 23rd then will travel home. Parents also not working and have been isolating pretty much since March. Will be home 24th-27th. No plans to leave the house. Then straight back to our house to isolate again for the foreseeable as no plans to see anyone.

Why would we change our plans and not go just because ‘it’s against the rules’. I don’t understand those saying they can’t go how due to rules changing.

If you are working out and about you shouldn’t have been mixing in the 1st place as you’re higher risk! Why are the rules influencing what you do - surely you should be using common sense!

In your situation there is still a risk. There is a risk you or your parents have contracted covid from a delivery despite isolating, there is a risk that you will breakdown at some point on your journey there/ back and need contact with a breakdown service, there is a risk one of you could have an accident/ injury/ fall ill during the journey or visit and need to have contact with paramedics/ hospital staff out of area, there’s a risk of something going wrong in your parents home and needing a plumber/ electrician etc come into the house. In each of these scenarios there’s a risk of catching covid, passing covid on or bringing it from one part of the country to another. On an individual level each of these scenarios will feel quite unlikely but on a population level where you had tens of thousands of families travelling up and down the country, even after isolating, they all become fairly likely and it’s impossible to say which families will be unlucky enough to breakdown or crash on the motorway, have a family member collapse and need an ambulance, have a burst water pipe etc so it’s sensible to try and restrict the population from travelling and gathering as much as possible so that the risk of transmission to the population as a whole, rather than to specific individual family groups, is reduced.

That’s why it’s important as a society to try and follow the rules, because statistically the more people who follow them the less chances there are for incidents which pass the virus to more people to occur.

You're no more special or important than everyone else.

Everyone is missing out.

Get the fuck over yourself.

@JaneTheVirgin they don’t ‘allow’ me to sit at home. My employer allows me to work from home. Looks it’s not ideal but some people’s jobs mean they are more likely to spread the virus. That’s just how it is. I didn’t say I’m ungrateful to those who are working outside of the home so I’m not sure where you’ve gotten that from! My DSIs is a nurse and is spending Christmas away from family as she’s in a risky position. She’s not moaning about it or slagging me off like you all are - she knows I can see our parents safely and knows it’s too risky for her to do it this year.. so that’s how the plans were made - not a free for all mixing until the rules said no.

What a w*nky post. As said previously, completely lacking in empathy for those who work in front line jobs without the option to work from home. It also sounds as though you regularly book supermarket home deliveries when there's likely no need other than you can't be bothered to go to the supermarket in person/don't want to catch the plebby germs. Hence the many panicked posts from people having to isolate who can't get a delivery and worried about feeding their kids. Maybe just try and apply some appreciation for the situations of those you are reprimanding for their possible poor decisions (mostly key workers who have no option) and how they might be feeling seeing as they lack the 'privilege' you have.

I would have thought it was a sackable offence to break the law in many professions eg police

I think that the premise that you should be allowed to visit people because you and your parents have the privilege of self isolating is pretty nasty. You can self isolate because others have taken the risk to be at work and collect your rubbish, deliver food and keep your utilities going etc Only 50% of jobs can be WFH- do you really think that the original rules should have been for 50% of the population?

Well lucky you eh?

@herethereandeverywhere

I'm going to follow the rules in the same manner as Dominic Cummings and expect to be lauded by the Tories for doing so. I'll follow my instincts as a parent, in order to find suitable childcare, (though unlikeCummings I'll have obtained a -ve test before mixing).

It was 9 months ago, how long are you going to use it to excuse your own behaviour?

Here's a for the car journey

Pretty insensitive post at the moment ! Go ahead and break the rules if you’re that self entitled but don’t boast to others in the process!!

It isn’t safe for you to see them though. Many people have pointed out there’s a risk of you breaking down, also you do realise that many people have to touch your food before it’s delivered to your house right? Also I’m assuming you’ll need fuel ? There’s no way you can be completely sure you won’t pass it on to them, that’s why the rules are for every one and you aren’t exempt.

Of course they allow you to. If you never leave the house, who's picking your groceries for you? Who's delivering your packages? Who's ensuring your electricity is running? Who's ensuring there's food on the shelves for you to eat? Who's ensuring the internet is on for you to work from home? Who's ensuring the community is safe from criminals so you can be safe at home?

You're privileged and have no idea what others have done for you to be in that position. But you still believe you're special and get to break the rules? And I haven't slagged you off once, you're the one being patronizing, thinking you're above guidance and telling key workers they shouldnt be able to see their family so you can.

If the general populace could be trusted to exercise appropriate discretion, Covid would have been done and dusted months ago. While I agree that some people may have next to no chance of spreading the virus, the socially responsible thing to do is to follow the rules because, if everyone did, things would get much better much more quickly.

What I think is particularly reckless is publically posting that you have no intention of following the rules, regardless of how safe your particular circumstances are, because it encourages people to make their own judgment calls (which may often be less than sound).

Why do you even need to stay over for a 50 minute drive?

Of course the rules don't apply to you

We were planning on following logic and seeing the PIL more than 10 days after the kids have finished school ie after Christmas. Not sure what is happening now.

You are unbelievably selfish and devoid of morals. I hope something extremely inconvenient happens to you and your DP over the festive period (that does not inconvenience anyone else).

While I don't doubt that 'logically' you aren't going to spread Covid with the measures you've taken, you sound like a complete arsehole.

I totally agree with this. You are in a very privileged position, surely you can see how unfair it is for you to come on MN and boast about it. The rules apply to all, but if you really believe you are special and somehow above them then at least have the decency not to shove it down the throats of those who have no choice but to be out and about in society.

This is possibly controversial, but there are lots of people who literally CAN'T apply logic for themselves. There are hundreds of thousands of people in this country who literally aren't clever enough/interested enough/will enough informed to be able to risk assess for themselves. Those people need very clear rules, and they also need to see everybody following them.

I'm thinking about several members of my extended family here, who don't keep up with news, don't understand the data, etc. They lack the basic understanding of the situation to say "hey, my job is quite risky, so maybe visiting grandma isn't a great idea this year". They need the rules to tell them what is safe. And that's why the rules are there, for people (and there are a massive number of them in the world) who can follow rules but not understand the whys and wherefores.

I haven't had to change any plans. I'm a teacher, so the Christmas relaxation isn't at a safe time for me to see my vulnerable parents. I had hoped to see them in their garden at New year when I'd had time to isolate before hand, but I won't be doing that now. Not because I think it's more risky now, but because they are in tier 3, it's not allowed, and I don't want to give other people the impression that we've broken the rules so it's safe for them to do so as well.

It’s not really about logic. Christmas isn’t logical, it’s a religious celebration. If you applied logic to the situation then you’d logically rearrange seeing your parents at a later time when there isn’t a fresh new strain of covid floating around. This is about stubbornness and a refusal to do something slightly difficult and different on a single Christmas Day in your entire lifetime.

Earlier in this thread I wrote I can understand why someone would make the decision to ignore the rules if they feel they are low risk - which I know is not no risk. I think what I wanted to say was I can understand the temptation. I am unable to travel so easy for me to stick to the rules. Also reading threads tonight I have been reminded that everyone following the rules even those v low risk promotes unity and encourages better compliance by everyone.

I have followed the rules all year. I’ve sat at home as I don’t need to be out to prevent spread. I’ve seen zero friends and very little family all year. I didn’t see anyone during the most recent lockdown. I haven’t been on holiday or gone away at all. I haven’t been in a pub or restaurant or at a beach.

@JaneTheVirgin you’re verging on hysterical here. What should I have done in my situation?? Gone out to shops every day? Taken public transport for no reason? Just so I am not ‘sitting at home’. I did what I can do which is stay home see no one do nothing and get a covid test before I do see someone and make sure Im not contributing to spread. This is not WW2 where I avoided conscription and you didn’t.. your job dictates you need to leave home to work making you more likely to catch and spread covid. Meaning it’s a lot larger risk for you to see family and you should be making plans based on that. Mine didn’t. That’s just reality.

My point and point of this thread is that I thought people would be making Christmas plans based on their levels of risk and trying their best to minimise spread not based on what was ‘allowed’.

YANBU op.

Well, fuck me sideways if this isn't the most self absorbed, goady, entitled attitude I have had the misfortune to come across for many a long year - your arrogance is beyond belief.

isolating more or less it's the more or less bit of that sentence that's the problem. Lots of people are justifying keeping to their original Christmas plans by saying (for example my neighbour): "Well we've hardly been out, we've more or less been isolating anyway. I think we're the exception" erm I saw you in Tescos on Saturday Denise.

Yes I know you're having a tests and are able to implement a full scale prevention plan prior Op but most people aren't going to do that. It's not great to promote your "common sense" plans all over social media.

If you're just sitting at home, I'd be careful about suddenly exerting yourself.