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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think covid has made some people lose empathy?

126 replies

LydiaMcadamand · 18/12/2020 12:29

I see plenty of threads in which an individual is looking for support.
And this could include wanting to see their partner, wanting to see family on christmas etc.
And these always include comments from other people who instantly state about the 'rulez'.

Why have some people lost so much empathy that they get angry at the fact somebody wants to see their partner and stay the night? Why do some people get angry at the fact people actually want to see family over christmas?

Why have we become a society that normalises telling people they can't visit their parents, grandparents etc.
Is this not choice of each family what their boundaries are?

I find it sad that people are belittled and shouted at for wanting to have celebrations with their family at christmas.

God forbid a parent wants 4 of their adult children around with their partners for christmas dinner.

What a sad time we live in.

OP posts:
TeenPlusTwenties · 18/12/2020 12:34

Why do some people get angry at the fact people actually want to see family over christmas?

They aren't angry at people wanting to see family. They are angry/despairing at people actually planning to form chains of contact which will help this miserable existence continue even longer.

Is this not choice of each family what their boundaries are?

No, it isn't. We as a society need to do things we don't want to do in order to break chains of transmission. This is not normal times.

TeenPlusTwenties · 18/12/2020 12:35

If someone posts they are upset at not seeing family they will get support.
If they post that they are going to form chains of contact so they can see all sorts of people then they shouldn't get support.

SecretSpAD · 18/12/2020 12:36

Actually I think it has highlighted how little empathy and compassion a lot of people had.

Original poster
LydiaMcadamand · 18/12/2020 12:37

@TeenPlusTwenties i cant imagine most people having wild parties with their family. Who are the general public to police who people want to see/what people want to do. It's absolutely ridiculous people feel the right to have a go at somebody for seeing family.

OP posts:
Original poster
LydiaMcadamand · 18/12/2020 12:38

@TeenPlusTwenties yes they should get support.
What right do you have to be angry at someone for wanting to see family and friends? It isn't natural for humans not to see their close family and friends.

OP posts:
Lipz · 18/12/2020 12:42

It's simple, because rules are made to try reduce the spread, one lot follow them and one lot don't. The lot that follow them get a little upset when they see Mr not give a shit, having a party with 50 people and hugging everything with a pulse, while the rule follower hasn't seen their family for nearly a year.

TeenPlusTwenties · 18/12/2020 12:43

If people post on AIBU then they are asking people for their opinions.

People may not be having wild parties, but in your example putting 10 adults from 5 households in a dining room for 2 hours is quite a good way to transmit the virus. Then on boxing day, those four adult DCs host their partners parents, etc.

I haven't seen my DPs since August. My whole life has been turned upside down. i have struggled to cope at times. But 5 days of making chains this Christmas will just make things so much worse for the first months of 2021.

aLilNonnyMouse · 18/12/2020 12:43

The virus doesn't care if it's a wild party or a cup of tea and a matter. It will spread just the same. Anyone visiting several people is going to risk spreading it around no matter how careful they think they are being. The more it spreads, the more people will die.

I think the lack of empathy is in the lack of thought of how selfish desires are putting people's lives at risk.

I have full sympathy for people missing families. As both my partner and I are shielding we have not seen any family since March. But that doesn't give anyone the right to break rules that exist purely to keep people safe.

Missing your family doesn't give you the right to start speeding while driving, and I see no difference between something like speeding and spreading a virus around.

TeenPlusTwenties · 18/12/2020 12:45

It's not the wanting to, it is the actual seeing.

I want to do lots of things, but I don't because I don't want to encourage the virus to go on and on and on.

Original poster
LydiaMcadamand · 18/12/2020 12:47

@aLilNonnyMouse why would missing family cause someone to speed whilst driving? Hmm
And yes missing family does give you a right to see them.
Considering the average person survives covid, I can totally see why people are defying "rulez" when the government "rulez" make no sense.

But yes, let's carry on destroying the economy, people losing their jobs, and stop people seeing their loved ones, even though most will not die from this virus.

OP posts:
RaspberryCoulis · 18/12/2020 12:48

Some people never had much in the first place. Other people have loved the drama and the justification to pontificate about what people should be doing.

Others are terrified about the whole thing and love screaming that people are murdering grannies.

Others like me don't give a shit what other people are doing as we realise we cannot control what others do, and can just manage our own behaviour accordingly.

Original poster
LydiaMcadamand · 18/12/2020 12:48

@aLilNonnyMouse and i find it really sad that you describe seeing loved ones as a 'selfish desire'

OP posts:
ZoeTurtle · 18/12/2020 12:49

It's made me lose empathy because it showed me how many people think my life, as a disabled person, is worthless. So many would really rather sacrifice me, as well as all the other ill and elderly, so they could have parties and go clothes shopping. It's hard to feel compassionate and kind towards the general population when I know how many of them feel about me.

Original poster
LydiaMcadamand · 18/12/2020 12:50

@RaspberryCoulis i agree with you exactly. I am having a small christmas myself, but no way would I report my neighbours if they wanted to have a bit of their family over. What right do i have?

OP posts:
Hardbackwriter · 18/12/2020 12:50

What I find really upsetting about the attitude on MN is that people get so berated for not being joyful about the rules, even if they are following them. If you wear a mask but hate doing it you're pathetic, if you actually like your family and don't especially want to spend Christmas 'just our little family' (a phrase I find nauseating) then you're a spoilt child, if you find this difficult then you should buck up because it'll all be over by Easter (except the government has said it won't be). I've done everything expected but I don't see why I'm supposed to be happy about it and just count my blessings that I'm not actually dead and nor are my family.

But I don't think those people have lost empathy, I think they never had it. What is particularly worrying is that lots of them are or have raised children.

TeenPlusTwenties · 18/12/2020 12:51

So stuff the over 70s then?
And clinically vulnerable people of all ages?
And when people are in hospital and there aren't enough beds or doctors for them?
And when you get breast cancer but can't get treated because there aren't any beds available as they are full of people with CV?

Retiremental · 18/12/2020 12:51

How about you challenge people on threads where you consider them to be rude/insensitive/uncaring?
Rather than create another thread of misery?
People are selfish. It’s human nature.

Original poster
LydiaMcadamand · 18/12/2020 12:53

@ZoeTurtle nobody thinks your life is worthless. But humans need to see loved ones.
It's been almost a year of covid, can you not see why people need to see their parents, siblings, friends etc.?
Can you not see how people who have lost their jobs, struggling to pay rent etc. might be sick of it?
Most people don't die of the virus so why are we locking up most people and closing down their businesses?

OP posts:
Nowaynothappening · 18/12/2020 12:55

I don’t think a lot of people are taking it seriously anymore. The government lost their authority after the famous trip to Barnard castle, it’s been downhill ever since. Most people are just sick of hearing about it now and want it to go away. I also think many stopped caring once the first lockdown ended when the government implemented EOTHO and schools and universities returned. Lots of people just think well, if I can mix with 30 people in the office and my DC with 30 people at school I’m going to the pub too.

Lots of rule bending, people just make it fit however they so wish. My FIL wanted us to go for a meal with him on two separate tables for example and got upset when we said no.

The tier system is completely farcical too. We live on the border between a tier 2 and tier 3 so we’re technically tier 3 but literally 5 minutes up the road they’re tier 2. So, you know, plenty of people are going 5 minutes up the road to the pub despite living in tier 3.

I’ve given up even attempting the police others now. Just shit when the rule breakers wind up in intensive care.

LuaDipa · 18/12/2020 12:55

I think there is too much judgement of others at the minute. That being said, if a parent tries to force their 4 dc and partners to spend Christmas together I would think that they were putting themselves and their dc families in unnecessary danger, as well as anyone that they come into contact with after that.

It may be ridiculous to have a go at people ‘seeing family’ but it is even more ridiculous to our others at risk and then complain when they protest.

Original poster
LydiaMcadamand · 18/12/2020 12:56

@TeenPlusTwenties a lot of treatments have been cancelled because of covid. Are we saying stuff all those people because covid is more important?

And it's not "stuff all the over 70s and clinically vulnetable". I find this whole "save your grannys" rather patronising when some over 70s and vulnerable actually do want to live their life and not be locked up.

Let people.decide for themselves. I have one set of grandparents who want to sheild and I have another set who couldn't give a stuff.
Let people decide and risk assess!

OP posts:
GoldenOmber · 18/12/2020 12:58

Most people don't die of the virus so why are we locking up most people and closing down their businesses?

To prevent the health system being overwhelmed and to prevent the longer-lasting economic damage that comes from letting the virus infect lots and lots of people.

There is no country on the planet that has let the virus run free and also has a strong, happy economy where everyone’s meeting with friends and family and it’s all lovely. Nowhere. On the planet. Do you not think if this was as easy to achieve as you think it is, some government somewhere might not have managed to do it by now?

Yes you’re sick of this. I’m sick of this. I miss my family so, so much. Most of the country is sick of this. And now there are vaccines coming to get us out of this, we’d rather you didn’t make that take even longer by giving the virus a helping hand to spread round the country after Christmas, thanks ever so.

Original poster
LydiaMcadamand · 18/12/2020 13:00

@GoldenOmber and i think a lot of the country would like it if you didn't police what others were doing, thank you very much.

My point of this post was the sadness of others policing others. People shouldn't be angry at people wanting to see family, they should be angry at a government who is clearly clueless.

OP posts:
SlothWithACloth · 18/12/2020 13:00

Some things don’t make sense.
It’s clear to me that seeing my mum on the 30th of December is ‘safer’ than seeing her in the 23rd, as the kids have not long broken up from school.
But, if all of us are well, and I go to see my mum on the 30th for a couple of days, then I’m breaking the rules. But I would feel more confidant of not passing on Covid then than on the 23rd where we could be incubating.

LuaDipa · 18/12/2020 13:01

@Hardbackwriter

What I find really upsetting about the attitude on MN is that people get so berated for not being joyful about the rules, even if they are following them. If you wear a mask but hate doing it you're pathetic, if you actually like your family and don't especially want to spend Christmas 'just our little family' (a phrase I find nauseating) then you're a spoilt child, if you find this difficult then you should buck up because it'll all be over by Easter (except the government has said it won't be). I've done everything expected but I don't see why I'm supposed to be happy about it and just count my blessings that I'm not actually dead and nor are my family.

But I don't think those people have lost empathy, I think they never had it. What is particularly worrying is that lots of them are or have raised children.

I love my family and I desperately want to see them. But I couldn’t live with myself if they became ill after seeing us. I don’t want my children to live with that either. It isn’t ideal and it will be very different to what we are used to but we will make the best of it, all of us, and still have a wonderful day.

And to be honest, I am looking forward to spending Christmas with just us because although I adore my wider family, I also love my husband and children and feel lucky that I have them when others aren’t as fortunate.