To think covid has made some people lose empathy?

[LydiaMcadamand]

I see plenty of threads in which an individual is looking for support.
And this could include wanting to see their partner, wanting to see family on christmas etc.
And these always include comments from other people who instantly state about the 'rulez'.

Why have some people lost so much empathy that they get angry at the fact somebody wants to see their partner and stay the night? Why do some people get angry at the fact people actually want to see family over christmas?

Why have we become a society that normalises telling people they can't visit their parents, grandparents etc.
Is this not choice of each family what their boundaries are?

I find it sad that people are belittled and shouted at for wanting to have celebrations with their family at christmas.

God forbid a parent wants 4 of their adult children around with their partners for christmas dinner.

What a sad time we live in.

The problem with risk assessing your own situation is that it can and does then go onto affect other people.
A friend had garden drinks with local family. Then a call to say one of the group tested positive. Friend in the meantime has had two walks with other friends and a medical appointment. Friend pays for private test as so close to Christmas and has also tested positive so now has to contact everyone they have been in contact with. Waiting to hear about others as well in this “risk assessed” chain. And this was outside but standing too close and touching things.

@LydiaMcadamand not gaslighting. It's true. Gaslighting is denying truth.

I think some empathy has gone, but Christmas is just ridiculous with bizarre rules that were unrealistic and dangerous. I am still tier 2 but am pretty sure will be in tier 3 by next week anyway. I do not remember much empathy for followers of other religions who just had to follow the rules.

What about families that have all had covid? They should be able to risk assess themselves and get together if they want.

please don't call those who need to see their families or who are on the verge of a breakdown so spending times with their loved ones "selfish idiots". You don't know everyone's backstory.

Indeed I don't, and I have genuine sympathy for those are genuinely on the verge of a breakdown, but in many cases, that simply isn't the case.

And some people are selfish idiots, as their posts on here quite clearly demonstrate.

If me not having empathy saves someone's life then I'll happily not have empathy.

That doesn't mean that noone should see family. But come on, its not just your family that is impacted. Your actions over that 5 day period will impact those around you, many you won't even know.

@covidnomore how on earth does not having empathy save anyone's life? Do you think you not having empathy influences other people's choices?

I actually think the one who seems to be lacking in empathy, is the OP. She seems very much, 'well, I just wanna be alright Jack, and I don't give a toss about anyone who might be impacted negatively, perhaps fatally, as a result of my choices and actions.'

OP | AIBU To think covid has made some people lose empathy?

Totally agree. And you have nicely proved your point in your aggressive posts to people who are choosing to be careful.

And yes missing family does give you a right to see them.

No, it really doesn’t.

We’re in the middle of an unprecedented pandemic; the government are doing their best. There’s no point anyone being angry with them; they’re not trying to keep families apart for no good reason.

It’s for the health and safety of everyone and keeping hospitals free, but your many replies in this thread show you’re ignorant of that.

[quote LydiaMcadamand]@GoldenOmber and i think a lot of the country would like it if you didn't police what others were doing, thank you very much.

My point of this post was the sadness of others policing others. People shouldn't be angry at people wanting to see family, they should be angry at a government who is clearly clueless.[/quote]
I think this hits the nail on the head.

There's a lot of misdirected anger and it is very sad to see members of the public getting annoyed with each other when the real cause of issues is an incompetent government who have handled the situation very badly.

The only ones I'm angry at, are the arseholes in charge, who couldn't find their arse with satnav, a flashlight, and both fricking hands. I don't think they have 'done their best'. I think they've shirked their duty, tried to avoid making tough decisions, meaning that when they've been able to avoid it no longer, it's inevitably been too little, too late. This was the worst possible time to have a self absorbed, conceited little popinjay as a part-time populist PM.

[quote Bringonthebloodydrama]@LydiaMcadamand not gaslighting. It's true. Gaslighting is denying truth.[/quote]
Yes, this confused me too. How is it gaslighting, OP?

@mbosnz

The only ones I'm angry at, are the arseholes in charge, who couldn't find their arse with satnav, a flashlight, and both fricking hands. I don't think they have 'done their best'. I think they've shirked their duty, tried to avoid making tough decisions, meaning that when they've been able to avoid it no longer, it's inevitably been too little, too late. This was the worst possible time to have a self absorbed, conceited little popinjay as a part-time populist PM.

Nothing to argue with here.

Nothing wrong with sharing what you want. It becomes wrong when people start to believe that their want should become entitlements.

@Hardbackwriter

I love my family and I desperately want to see them. But I couldn’t live with myself if they became ill after seeing us. I don’t want my children to live with that either. It isn’t ideal and it will be very different to what we are used to but we will make the best of it, all of us, and still have a wonderful day.

And to be honest, I am looking forward to spending Christmas with just us because although I adore my wider family, I also love my husband and children and feel lucky that I have them when others aren’t as fortunate.

A perfect example. What do you think posting that achieves other than a chance for you to be sanctimonious? Well done you for not just following the rules, as am I, but feeling lovely about it. You definitely win the award for being a better person than me because I feel sad and low about it whereas you're Polly fucking Anna. Congratulations.

I think you may have misunderstood. I was responding to this.

if you actually like your family and don't especially want to spend Christmas 'just our little family' (a phrase I find nauseating) then you're a spoilt child, if you find this difficult then you should buck up because it'll all be over by Easter (except the government has said it won't be).

I think it’s quite harsh to assume that families who are just dealing with the situation don’t actually like their families and aren’t upset. One can dearly love their family but still make the best of not being able to see them. The two are not mutually exclusive.

And for the record I don’t feel particularly ‘lovely’ about any of this but it is what it is.

I've actually specifically stated to my neighbours that we don't see and we don't judge. People will make their own choices, according to their wants, needs and perceptions of risk involved - some are focussed on risk to themselves, or lack thereof, while others are more concerned about the wider societal elements of risk.

I do feel though, that it's wilfully ignorant, or disingenuous, to say that given the type of risk pandemic poses, one's choices and actions do not have the potential to be detrimental to others, and potentially lethally so.

I really feel for those missing seeing family, especially those who are isolated, or alone. It's been 2.5 years since I saw my 82 year old mother, we were supposed to go visit in June, and couldn't, cos pandemic. It's now highly likely it will be over another two years until we get the planets align so we can try again.

Well I agree we've lost empathy. I sympathise with people who want to see their family and can't and hate the 'you have no right to be upset' posters. That said of course we can't just let everyone see their entire family over Christmas even if they'd really like to. It's not just covid sufferers who will die if hospitals are over capacity. It's anyone else who needs treatment. You can't have an emergency C-section if all the aneasthetists are in ICU (or at home with covid), you can't have any operation, you can't be treated for a heart attack ir be put on a ventilator for sepsis if they're all full.

It can't be up to individual families to decide because they're not just deciding their own risk they're exposing everyone else to risk too - the person on the checkout in the supermarket, the teacher at their school , the paramedic or nurse who will treat them in hospital if they do catch covid. It's exactly the same as why we can't just decide whether or not to speed or drink drive.

But i'm sure the average person can risk assess the situation themselves.
The problem is it appears they can't, which is why numbers are rising all over the UK. N Ireland are requiring paramedics and hospital beds from over the border as their health system is overwhelmed, and hospital beds are running out in England and Wales. So honestly, no I don't think people can risk assess v well unfortunately.

Op where is your empathy?? Where is your empathy for those who are clinically vulnerable? For those who have already lost loved ones to covid?

It’s really hard but we all have to do our bit to keep people safe. Not being able to see loved ones in order to keep down the virus numbers is not as bad as not being able to see them because they are dead.

If you just want to risk asses for your own young/healthy family then you are the one devoid of empathy and humanity.

It is gaslighting to say to people
"If you see your family, you may kill them"
When the average person doesn't die from covid.

@Bringonthebloodydrama

With respect, you cannot risk assess. The virus is random.

I say this as a teacher who is lying in bed with Covid. Got told to isolate as a member of dept tested positive. I took a test the day I isolated and tested negative. Five days later tested postive.

I am fucked. I am a healthy 41 year old and I find it hard to climb stairs. I am aching. Exhausted. Wheezing. Sweating. Freezing.

The only advice I can give people who are talking about five day bubbles and bleating on about missing family, is if you love them then stay put in your own fucking house. It.is.not.worth.the.risk. you could kill them.

I haven't seen my parents since last Christmas. I miss them so much. I've only met my baby niece once. She's 14 months.

But I'm not risking anyone's health.

I've put my own health on the line for months which is another matter entirely. So yes, I do judge and I judge very fucking harshly.

Stay home. Stop spreading it.

I don't blame you for how you feel. I hope you recover soon.

It is not gaslighting to say 'if you see your family you may kill them', when people have, and continue, to die from covid. You simply cannot say with absolute certainty that any one individual, upon catching covid, will survive it. They most likely will, but there is the possibility they will not. Then there are the long-term, ongoing, consequences of catching covid, that more is being learned about each day, and mostly, none of what we are learning is good news.

This is fact. This is the current environment, and people should make their risk assessments and choose their actions in light of that, not being what could most charitably be called overoptimistic, and more realistically disingenuous or wilfully ignorant if they're not.

@mbosnz saying you may kill your family if you see them on christmas is scare-mongering and complete exaggoration when the average person does not die.

My empathy lies with those who are ill from it, those who it took lives from, the NHS and other key workers putting themselves at risk daily.

There is so much technology that we have to keep in touch via that utilising that plus the outdoor visits etc means people can follow the rules and see people.