To think covid has made some people lose empathy?

[LydiaMcadamand]

I see plenty of threads in which an individual is looking for support.
And this could include wanting to see their partner, wanting to see family on christmas etc.
And these always include comments from other people who instantly state about the 'rulez'.

Why have some people lost so much empathy that they get angry at the fact somebody wants to see their partner and stay the night? Why do some people get angry at the fact people actually want to see family over christmas?

Why have we become a society that normalises telling people they can't visit their parents, grandparents etc.
Is this not choice of each family what their boundaries are?

I find it sad that people are belittled and shouted at for wanting to have celebrations with their family at christmas.

God forbid a parent wants 4 of their adult children around with their partners for christmas dinner.

What a sad time we live in.

In the same way, you 'may' get knocked over if you're trying to cross a busy road.

You 'may' get cancer if you smoke.

You 'may' crash when you drive a car.

Lydia hiw is fact scaremongering.

Yes the chances are slim, but not negligible, especially if you are mixing with the older generation.

What people need to assess is that risk is whether it is worth it.

For some it totally will be, for some they really don't understand it, and some decidenits not worth it.

It is scary when you say fact is scaremongering. It seems to be the norm in this country now and its bloody terrifying.

But my opinion is that we all have our boundaries and after almost a year of restrictions, why do some people feel the need to police others. But that's that. I'm done with this thread now.

“You ‘may’ crash when you drive a car.” But we don’t say it’s fine to get absolutely hammered and then drive a car, because you’ve decided the risk to you is low. We recognise that you can’t ‘risk assess’ drunk driving without recognising you might crash into other people.

If you do things that could increase the spread of covid, that impacts people beyond you. Some of them may be people you’re meeting that day. Some of them may be people that those people go on to infect somewhere down the line. Some of them may be people whose medical treatment is delayed or doesn’t happen because the hospitals are now at capacity dealing with all the covid patients. It’s not just you you need to risk assess for.

@LydiaMcadamand

In the same way, you 'may' get knocked over if you're trying to cross a busy road.

You 'may' get cancer if you smoke.

You 'may' crash when you drive a car.

We have laws restricting all those things too...

It's ok and totally normal to be sad about not being able to see people. That's a thing that pretty much everybody has been through this year though.

I haven't seen any threads where people have been shouted down for wanting to see people. We all want to see people. Starting a thread expecting support for actually planning to see people against the rules is a totally different matter.

Of course people end up frustrated and in your words "policing others" when they are making huge sacrifices themselves and want to see their own families and friends but recognise that it is irresponsible given the grim situation at present.

If everybody would just reign in their own plans this would all be over sooner. But those with mass chains over Christmas are just going to elongate this further for everybody else.

That's why those that are cancelling plans and restricting what they do get fed up hearing of lots of others who are having a "super spreader" Christmas.

The scientists are warning people, The World Health Organisation are warning people, other countries are warning their citizens, our Government are warning people, our top Medical personnel and Nursing Profession are warning people .... are they all wrong?

Stress does this to people. In normal times I would estimate that around half the examples we see of people being irritable and self centred and unreasonable are actually people reacting to acute stress. It would be good if one of the things that comes out of this whole bloody mess is better understanding of just how hard it can be to be even tempered and empathetic and calm when you feel frightened and exhausted and hopeless and trapped.

I can be an absolute arsehole and I know I am being more of a one, more often, these days. And I know that's because I am so stressed and worn out by all this shit; all my energy is going on just keeping going, I don't seem to have much left for being nice.

And don't forget the disgusting lack of empathy towards those who struggle/can't wear a face mask!

There are always people who want to police the behaviour of others, who believe that with rules and order come safety.

It doesn’t work like that. These rules are theatre, and actually the only thing that keeps people safe is staying at home. That’s it. Everything else is a risk.

The idea that policing rules or berating people for not complying sometimes meets a psychological need to feel safe. The truth is, this virus doesn’t know who followed the rules or not. It’s pointless to police others. Protect yourself. You can control that, but not other people.

And I would love to see my mum. I have never gone this long without seeing my mum. I want to go and see her and hug her so much it makes me cry just to think about it. But my mum and dad have self isolated, completely, since February. They won't see any of us. Because they feel so fucking scared. And if lots of people do mix households at Xmas, I understand why, I love my family and want to be with them too, I really do get it- but I still think your choice is wrong and will lead to more suffering and make the wait for me to see my mum even longer. So I am sorry if you feel policed and offended and that people are just stamping over your joy, but I feel let down and miserable and that people are just stamping over my hope.

YY @LydiaMcadamand

I think the MSM particularly left wing media have judged and called this really really badly. Guilt tripping and emotionally blackmailing ppl over Christmas while the super rich get to go off to Dubai , certain people dont have to quarantine,(Grant Shapps and his high value individuals) Im having a small Christmas with close family members from 2/3 households in a household in walking distance and media and Gov and Whitty moaning and saying" just because you can doesnt mean you should" while ppl can go sit on a plane with 200 others and not quarantine if they are high ranking businessmen or go to a Christmas party with 27 people. Start a thread about it though and it struggles to get to two pages, unlike threads about families wanting to see each other. I had Channel 4 news on and have yet to hear a mention of Tobias Ellwood. There seems to be an expectation that protecting the NHS is a job for the working classes. i havent had a holiday abroad since 1986. So our small family Christmases of six people max are what we have been looking forward to. There is a lot of anger growing because it is people lower down the scale being expected to make all the sacrifices.

I'm kind of shocked that you are focused only on "you might not die". I have an otherwise healthy friend who has been in bed for seven months with long Covid and I know another who never recovered very well but went home for a few months and died of an associated stroke.

YANBU ,,today has brought out a lot of vile , ,unsympathetic people .
Think tier 3 has finally pushed them over the edge so they feel the need to lash out at innocent people .

I think you are massively missing the point op.

I feel really sorry for those people who have lost their jobs, in financial difficulties, mental health suffering due to lock down, physical health issues that weren't addressed in the early months when the NHS was adjusting.

I am simultaneously angry with those people who think the rules don't apply to them, as this increases risk for all of us.

Road deaths in 2019 (unavailable for 2020) in the UK, 1752.

Coronavirus deaths UK 2020, 66,052.

Hmmmmm. . .

Once again, OP, these are facts. Unwelcome ones, perhaps, to those who wish to minimise and deny the potential risk. But still, indisputably, facts. Not gaslighting. Not minimising. Not wishing to police.

But people when making their risk assessments, on which they base their choices and their actions, should make them in light of the facts, or their risk assessment analysis is likely to be very flawed, and while the individual risk might be relatively small, it should not be assumed that the best case scenario is what you, your family members, and those around you who may be impacted as a result of your choices, due to being in contact with you, will, be blessed with.

I hope you and yours have a good Christmas, and that you do indeed stay safe and well.

I think that the thing is that EVERYONE wants to see their family, but a lot of people are choosing not to, in order to try to follow the guidelines that we have been assured will make it safer for everyone. I think what is being interpreted as anger is possibly more frustration and disappointment at those who are ignoring the guidelines and therefore possibly extending period of strict lock downs. I think it’s really important to remember that our actions affect more than just the people directly involved- we need to try to all be in this together and that does indeed mean we need to empathetic towards each other and remember that we all ultimately want the same thing. To be with our families and for life to return to normal.

So many people seemingly don't understand the rules and guidance in place and actually to me don't seem to be able to assess risk effectively - understandably up to a point because the virus itself is so abstract.
None of that is helped by an incompetent government led by a populist and amoral prime minister.
I do understand that people find it hard not to have physical contact with their families but there are so many other aspects in play in my opinion that mean lack of social responsibility might have devastating consequences. I feel desperately sorry for front line workers bearing the brunt of this and those losing their livelihoods. I don't have too much patience for those who say they're going to mix households just because they want to and no one is going to tell them what to do.

@ilovesooty thankyou

Apologies for the rant. I just can't believe the naïvety and selfishness of many people. It's depressing.

On another thread some nitwit said "the likelihood of you coming into contact of someone who has it is very low"

Fucking WHAT?!

It's a pandemic! You can get it from a door handle!

*naïvete sorry

My daughter is currently self isolating, because she's a close contact with a positive covid case. It feels like the Jaws theme, should be playing in the background.

I'm angry that I've hardly seen anyone since the first lockdown, other than a couple of socially distanced walks, because apparently it "isn't worth the risk" (easy to say when you aren't the single parent). Yet those same people have bent and stretched every rule in order to see each other.

I already kinda knew I was the black sheep of the family. This has just proven it :(

@ilovesooty

So many people seemingly don't understand the rules and guidance in place and actually to me don't seem to be able to assess risk effectively - understandably up to a point because the virus itself is so abstract. None of that is helped by an incompetent government led by a populist and amoral prime minister. I do understand that people find it hard not to have physical contact with their families but there are so many other aspects in play in my opinion that mean lack of social responsibility might have devastating consequences. I feel desperately sorry for front line workers bearing the brunt of this and those losing their livelihoods. I don't have too much patience for those who say they're going to mix households just because they want to and no one is going to tell them what to do.

Great post.

I find the lack of social responsibility really upsetting. I take my responsibility to others very seriously.

@Holly60

I think that the thing is that EVERYONE wants to see their family, but a lot of people are choosing not to, in order to try to follow the guidelines that we have been assured will make it safer for everyone. I think what is being interpreted as anger is possibly more frustration and disappointment at those who are ignoring the guidelines and therefore possibly extending period of strict lock downs. I think it’s really important to remember that our actions affect more than just the people directly involved- we need to try to all be in this together and that does indeed mean we need to empathetic towards each other and remember that we all ultimately want the same thing. To be with our families and for life to return to normal.

Exactly @Holly60.

I miss my friends and family. I'm sticking to the rules. It really upsets me when people on mumsnet say they're going go break the rules due to their "own risk assessment". That person could be sat near me on the train the next day.