We’re going to lose everything..

[Worriednow77]

Are we going to end up with nothing, as a country? No businesses will be left and where will the money come from to fund us all?
Wuhan and other countries look practically back to normal, with no vaccine. Why are we having the vaccine but also being told social distancing etc won’t end? What’s the point?! What’s the plan...I feel like we’re all just drifting into something

I say this as someone who has a DP whose job has done marvellously well this year and he earns a huge amount from home. Yes, I see a big divide and it's people like my DP who will benefit, who has job security, has been able to save masses of money and will suffer no real fallout. Personally though, we have spent since October apart so that is really hard for him.
Nobody has escaped negative effects from coronavirus in some form but it's gullible to say the wealthy in many ways have benefitted financially and will get richer where as everyone else is struggling or taken a big loss. The divide in our society will be seen more than ever.

@hopingforonlychild I thought Taiwan did so well because they ignored the WHOs advice & used their SARs experience.

@perditaplum - or speaking the truth

as in they didn't wait for the WHOs guidance

@Miamarshmallows I would expect tax hikes though be it capital gains, income.

My business is one that is busier than it has ever been. Our sales are up, I've had extra bonuses.

BUT, I do not feel happy about this. I love enterprise and success, it makes me sick to see well fought businesses literally destroyed for no apparent reason.

You can harp all you like about the restrictions being necessary, cutting down contacts etc. but there is not one piece of evidence that the pubs were a problem with the way they were operating in the summer. I just do not see how it is justified to kill them off in such a brutal manner. I am not saying to go back to 2019 ways of visiting a pub or restaurant, but as they were in the summer, they could be open. That is a classic case of not weighing up the costs and benefits properly. The cost of closing them all down is clearly much higher than the cost of keeping them open in their Covid way.

I detect a lot of puritanical hangovers when it comes to pubs - alcohol being seen as sinful is literally alive and well. There is no science to justify the restrictions on pubs - it's very very bad.

[quote hopingforonlychild]@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland Singapore has an aging population, Intergenerational living is the norm there and 95% of people live in apartments, just like in China. Singapore had 29 deaths for 5 million people. in Taiwan, South korea, the death and infection rate wasn't as high as in the UK. Even london is not as densely populated as most asian cities.[/quote]
But how can this be?
what is the explanation for the massive discrepancy in death rates??

Alcohol being seen as sinful
Alcohol IS a very harmful substance

Yes, agree they are essential for food, but U.K. only eats 20% of its EU quota preBrexit. Not sure they can replace vegetables with fish?

People will eat more fish if that's the protein available. We have vegetables other than mini tomatoes and salad pots available. I'm also sure the EU would trade some of its now surplus salad for our fish, as I'm not sure they could replace fish with vegetables. Strategic. 😉

Yes he earns six figures so I imagine the wealthy will be hit with huge tax hikes to help pay for all of this extortionate borrowing, with that said, he will still be very fortunate and lucky.

@midscram many of the countries that did well had experience with SARS but not all like New Zealand. The key is a cohesive society where people are committed to bring infections down so that there can be some semblance of normal life. In Taiwan, you would be shamed online for not wearing a mask. In singapore, it was the law that everyone had to wear a mask and when this lady didn't wear a mask,insisting she was a 'sovereign', there was a whole group of people yelling at her in public and the police was called.

I was in brighton last week and there was an anti lockdown protest but there was no anger at the protesters at all. So now most of the country is in tier 3 while in singapore, my parents are going for a staycation at a local hotel and enjoying themselves in restaurants.
I suppose its more comfortable in the uk to be anti lockdown and have your own opinions and beliefs on your rights, but in other asian countries, people can see their family and go to restaurants if thats their thing. I suppose its what you value at the end of the day.

Singapore

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55314862
Covid-19: Singapore migrant workers infections were three times higher

New data shows that 152,000 foreign workers - 47% - have been infected.

Without counting the migrant workers, fewer than 4,000 people have tested positive in Singapore.

The combined 152,000 cases among the foreign workers make up almost half of the 323,000 workers living in dormitories across the island state.

But with some 65,000 workers' serology tests still pending, the percentage might still go up.

Why?

The men, the majority of whom live in large dormitories where several men share a room amid cramped facilities, have essentially been quarantined from the rest of the population since cases exploded in April.

They locked up anyone doing shitty high risk, low paid jobs...

@Miamarshmallows

Yes he earns six figures so I imagine the wealthy will be hit with huge tax hikes to help pay for all of this extortionate borrowing, with that said, he will still be very fortunate and lucky.

the wealthy will use their wealth to find clever ways to hide their wealth and to lobby the government to help them to keep their wealth Money goes to money the more money you have the easier it is for you to protect your money

I know OP. It feels like never ending.If only the government had fixed the test and trace properly earlier and introduced testing and proper quarantine on arrivals to UK. A lot of countries require a negative test upon arrival to their country and people are properly quarantined in a hotel. Life is pretty much back to normal in a lot of Asian countries (have lots of friends from there), of course there are still restrictions but it is so much better and deaths are far fewer. We have stuff in place but it feels like it's always done half heartedly. And I think also part of the problem is not looking at how badly we have done and thinking we are doing great or everyone else has got in bad but in reality other countries have done so much better.

Masks are the problem imo. when it comes to Europe because will just wear the mask but still not stand 2 meters apart still hug and kiss each other. You might aswell just take the mask off. Look what happened to Macron in France. I see so many people wearing mask but will take it off when they are talking or often screaming in other peoples faces. No point wearing it if you’re not going to do any of the other social distancing measures which have proven to stop the spread more than masks.

The key is a cohesive society where people are committed to bring infections down so that there can be some semblance of normal life.

That’s not the only ‘key’, no.

Many of these countries have far more tools at their disposal to ensure citizen compliance and keep track of people’s movements.

Because fuckwits like my BIL and SIL are picking and choosing rules to suit themselves.

@Yohoheaveho inews.co.uk/news/world/singapore-coronavirus-deaths-cases-covid-19-figures-why-explained-654980

Most of the infection rate is amongst young migrant workers. It wasnt allowed to spread to the oldies. My sister is a doctor and lives in the same household as my 86 year old grandma who is a stroke patient and bed bound. This is a very typical setup in singapore, grandkids don't leave the family home until they are married. And Singapore is one of the most rapidly ageing societies in the world.

My parents in singapore are not worried about contracting covid at all. There are only 86 active cases in singapore so the risk is low. they are therefore happy to go out and make their usual spending decisions pre covid. The only thing they are not doing is the usual extended family gathering of 50 people on christmas as my mum has 6 siblings and many of those siblings have grandkids.

China is a communist state.

Their economy does not rely on people having money to spend like a precarious little house of cards like ours is(was!).

@TheKeatingFive I think at this point, many Brits would rather carry around an electronic dongle that tracks their movements as opposed to being in tier 3.

@ChristmasTreeFairy5000

China is a communist state.

Their economy does not rely on people having money to spend like a precarious little house of cards like ours is(was!).

No, it depends on selling stuff to the rest of the world. If people in Britain and other countries aren't buying Chinese goods, that's very bad news for their economy.

That said, China is an increasingly consumerist society itself. It has long been Communist in name only.

Well...... this is a cheery thread.

I think at this point, many Brits would rather carry around an electronic dongle that tracks their movements as opposed to being in tier 3.

It’s a lot more than that.

Perhaps they would. I think they should be careful what they wish for. People may not fully appreciate citizen rights and data privacy laws until they’re gone.

@RedToothBrush would you rather they quarantine the migrant workers or let the virus rip through singapore which would be catastrophic given the population density. How they treat foreign workers in singapore isn't nice, i give you that, but they are increasing the minimum housing standards.

There are families cramped in HMOs in London which are little better, i don't see the british government doing anything to help them.Many are forced to keep working even if they have covid to pay the bills. At least those migrant workers can remit money back to bangladesh to give their families a better life, the families in HMOs in london have nothing.

A lot of these countries who have locked down and not let anyone in tend to be tiny places with very few people and even the most populated areas predominately have a population still much lower per square km than London.
They also had such harsh lockdowns that I wonder how many suicides there has been because of their response to this virus. (I know of 8 people who have committed suicide whilst living under these conditions)

Italy and Spain had harsh lockdowns. They aren’t doing well either.