So I had this conversation and I find it so weird...

[mopsy2]

Before I start let me say in advance it involves the gay community/same sex couples and so on.
I NC for this as I wanted to keep it separate from my usual chats.

Was catching up with a male friend I haven't spoken to in a while on video call last night. Lots of random subjects being brought up and he mentioned how an European country is passing legislation to stop same sex couples from adopting children and they have also apparently not legalised same sex marriages. He agreed with it and I opposed and the conversation went as follows:

Me: I don't understand how you can be opposed to people marrying who they love /making a family/adopting a child that needs a home.
Him: It's wrong, they can be together but should keep it to themselves, gay men are attracted to penises so if they adopt a boy they might be attracted to him when he's older.
Me (thinking WTF in my head): that's paedophiles, you are talking about paedophiles. Would you be attracted to your DD?
Him: no I know what I'm talking about she's blood relation it's different!
Me: so in your logic if you were ever to adopt a child like you said you've always wanted and it was a girl you might be attracted to her as she grows up since you are straight and attracted to females?
Him (clearly disgusted) : no of course not!

The conversation went down the route of how he wouldn't really like it if there was a gay married couple involved in his community/with a child at his DCs school as they get "all these ideas" and kids get confused and "don't know if they're boys or girls". I told him that he's now talking about gender not sexual preference. It was clear from the way he was speaking that in his head gay people bring some sort of harm to their surroundings but when pressed has no actual examples or valid points. He thinks only a man and a woman should be raising a child otherwise it's unnatural...

The conversation basically ended with him not having many points to back up his views after I asked for specifics and meekly saying how "maybe there's no harm in it but I don't want to see it" and me basically wondering why I got involved in this conversation and stayed on the call for this long.

AIBU to be completely surprised how these opinions are still being held by educated young people in 2020?
Or am I too liberal to not see anything wrong with same sex marriage of adoption?

Am I massively out of touch with today's realities? Does the majority still hold these views?

I'd say a lot of people hold those views, as in they dont actively hate gay people, but find it all a bit distasteful so it should be hidden away, or vague confusion about what gay actually means.

It's a sort of gut prejudice without much thought.

I've had some truly bizarre conversations with PILs, around the same lack of logic, once around gay men shouldn't work at boys schools (so what about straight men or lesbians teaching at girl's schools? That's different, apparently.

We were in hysterics when they tried to prove they weren't prejudiced by telling us about the lesbian couple at their golf club. Comedy gold at the time, but of course showing up some weird beliefs.

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Oh I've had so many conversations with my friend along the same lines. He can't seem to articulate why he feels it's wrong, apart from quoting the bible re. marriage being between a man and a woman. I even give the example of two children who were in a horribly neglectful and abusive situation being raised by drug addicts until my gay friends fostered and eventually adopted them. My friends have been together 15 years, they're intelligent, well-qualified, wealthy, good jobs, live in a beautiful house in a nice town, and are very happily married and all-round nice people, but instead of accepting that they are actually terrific parents that any child would be lucky to have, he just mutters about two wrongs not making a right.

So yes, I think quite a few people do still hold these views.

I had almost an identical conversation more than 25 years ago with a colleague. She thought it would be dangerous for a gay person, man in her imagined example, to be around children. I hope life has since educated her.

Yes, many people hold these views. Although huge leaps have been made in recent years, we're still nowhere near.

I have experienced homophobia, in terms of comments and assumptions. I certainly couldn't walk around holding my wife's hand. Well I could, but being stared at is off putting, and potentially dangerous in some places.

I have experienced homophobia, in terms of comments and assumptions. I certainly couldn't walk around holding my wife's hand. Well I could, but being stared at is off putting, and potentially dangerous in some places.

That's really shit @RedBetty I'm sorry.

I have a few months ago been privy to a conversation between a couple of friends one being a 46yo man who said "why do you think these gays want to adopt little boys hmm?" With a knowing look. That's paedophiles, you are talking about a paedophile! It completely boggles my brain but since I don't know him that well and he was from a very religious EU country with English not being his first language I thought that perhaps that's a minority view but then yesterday's conversation happened with a university educated young British professional who basically repeated the same view

It really is a sad state of affairs that people still have this archaic, ignorant and intolerant attitudes.
I think you did very well in how you spoke to him and hopefully it will give him time to reflect on his prejudices. Hopefully but probably unlikely.
Treating people with care and respect should never been deemed out of touch.

I couldn't be friends with someone like that.

It's a repugnant viewpoint. I wouldn't be able to remain friends with someone who held it.

I grew up in the 70s where blatant sexism, & homophobia were rife and they're all things I've kicked back against as soon as I was old enough to understand why they were wrong. I won't countenance such nonsense from people such as your 'friend' and nor will I tolerate ablist or racist remarks.

Every child deserves a loving home. Every person deserves to be treated with respect and courtesy*

*I will make an exception for Donald Trump. He deserves no respect whatsover.

It's not news that a particular kind of person still suffers from an unpleasant, kneejerk homophobia, but I'm interested in him vocalising this all out loud and at length to you -- why did he think you would be receptive to this kind of dimwit prejudice?

And why on earth do you think you're 'too liberal'? What would that even mean?

My mum says stuff like that, almost without thinking, then she can't back it up when challenged. She is in her 70s though, not that it's an excuse but she's from a different time.

It's shocking and ignorant that people these days still think such bonkers things and say them out loud to other people. Good for you for challenging him.

AIBU to be completely surprised how these opinions are still being held by educated young people in 2020?

Is he actually educated? He doesn't sound educated at all and frankly sounds quite thick. You don't have to be super-bright to know this is bigoted rubbish, you just have to have read the papers and not live under a stone.

I would not be wildly surprised to hear views like this from people in their 70s/80s but I would from someone in their 20s/30s tbh. But I live in London and might be part of a bubble.

But yes I do find it fairly shocking that a young person could air views like this.

I have often wondered whether part of it, is because they hold the view that a man can't raise a child by themselves.

Yup, that’s homophobia.

When I came out to my parents they told me I wasn’t allowed to say anything to my younger sister that might imply being gay is ok, in case I made her gay or bi too.
(funnily enough she is actually bi but I don’t think I can really shoulder the blame for that!)

I couldn't be friends with somone who had these views. If nothing else he sounds really thick.

@IMNOTSHOUTING

He's just a homophobic retard. I'm straight, being aware of gay people may have made it easier for me to get accept my sexuality had I happened to be gay it wouldn't magically change which sex I'm attracted to. My DC (eldest 9) have always been aware some people are gay, they're about as interested in homosexual marriage as they are in heterosexual marriage (ie. very little).

Come on are you seriously using the r word? Ffs

But gay men are not attracted to penises are they. They are attracted to the human being who owns the penis.

I am a straight woman, does not mean I want to have sex with every penis owner I meet, especially not child penis owners. Why would a gay man be any different.

Humans don't date a body part, they date a complete person.

Your friend has some strange idea what gay means.

People can think whatever they want to think, you can't police thoughts. As long as he isn't actively hurting anyone or discriminating against them then you're going to have to just accept that people are entitled to different opinions on things, no matter how much they don't align with your own.

Our (female) nanny recently came out as gay. When I told a few friends, they said ‘oh thank god you only have sons and not daughters!’ None of them could really explain what they meant by that.

Look, if thats his view he is entitled to it, what makes you think only your opinion is valid, are we now going to have the woke thought police

Seriously, isadoradancing123, he isn’t. Sexuality is a protected characteristic under the DDA.

@Sobeyondthehills

I have often wondered whether part of it, is because they hold the view that a man can't raise a child by themselves.

I do think there is part of this.

I also think there are some men out there who are quite frankly sex pests and assume that every woman ever wants to have sex with them. They are predatory towards women and objectify women. They presume gay men are the same and suddenly they don't like the idea of someone treating them like they treat women.

Yabu for being surprised people hold these views.

The argument i heard is that homosexuality is not natural, paedophilia is not natural, you find same sex a turn on and reject nature so you must also have abhorrent tendencies to children, or that you were abused as a child so you became homosexual and you might do the same to children.

I pesonally do not agree with the above at all but that is a view out there for sure.

PrimeraVez

Our (female) nanny recently came out as gay. When I told a few friends, they said ‘oh thank god you only have sons and not daughters!’ None of them could really explain what they meant by that.
I'm sure they could explain what they meant by it but they didn't want to.

Is this Poland? Pretty sure adoption by gay couples is already banned there. Unfortunately opinions that we would class as homophobic are seen as acceptable there.

I do worry that the UK is going the same way, as shown by the 'woke' reference above.