So I had this conversation and I find it so weird...

[mopsy2]

Before I start let me say in advance it involves the gay community/same sex couples and so on.
I NC for this as I wanted to keep it separate from my usual chats.

Was catching up with a male friend I haven't spoken to in a while on video call last night. Lots of random subjects being brought up and he mentioned how an European country is passing legislation to stop same sex couples from adopting children and they have also apparently not legalised same sex marriages. He agreed with it and I opposed and the conversation went as follows:

Me: I don't understand how you can be opposed to people marrying who they love /making a family/adopting a child that needs a home.
Him: It's wrong, they can be together but should keep it to themselves, gay men are attracted to penises so if they adopt a boy they might be attracted to him when he's older.
Me (thinking WTF in my head): that's paedophiles, you are talking about paedophiles. Would you be attracted to your DD?
Him: no I know what I'm talking about she's blood relation it's different!
Me: so in your logic if you were ever to adopt a child like you said you've always wanted and it was a girl you might be attracted to her as she grows up since you are straight and attracted to females?
Him (clearly disgusted) : no of course not!

The conversation went down the route of how he wouldn't really like it if there was a gay married couple involved in his community/with a child at his DCs school as they get "all these ideas" and kids get confused and "don't know if they're boys or girls". I told him that he's now talking about gender not sexual preference. It was clear from the way he was speaking that in his head gay people bring some sort of harm to their surroundings but when pressed has no actual examples or valid points. He thinks only a man and a woman should be raising a child otherwise it's unnatural...

The conversation basically ended with him not having many points to back up his views after I asked for specifics and meekly saying how "maybe there's no harm in it but I don't want to see it" and me basically wondering why I got involved in this conversation and stayed on the call for this long.

AIBU to be completely surprised how these opinions are still being held by educated young people in 2020?
Or am I too liberal to not see anything wrong with same sex marriage of adoption?

Am I massively out of touch with today's realities? Does the majority still hold these views?

I think if someone isn’t from a Western European country you do have to take some account of the fact that the views they’ll hear from friends, family and the media will not be as liberal as what is seen as the majority view in the UK. I’m only 30 and I remember clearly as a teenager debating at school if gay marriage should be legalised and lots of people didn’t think it should. And these were young well educated middle class individuals. So I think it’s easy to forget how fast things have changed. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t encourage them to change their views. And if someone is British it’s harder to accept, I’d question our friendship. The idea about adoption = paedaphilia is just awful.

@boxtysandwich

Seriously, isadoradancing123, he isn’t. Sexuality is a protected characteristic under the DDA.

You can think and feel however you want though it's only when you start discriminating by refusing them to adopt or abusing and harrassing individuals but to hold that opinion is not discrimination. It is very ignorant though and i wouldnt want to assiciate with such a homophobe.

He's a bigot. No other way to describe it. You are 💯 in the right.

Of course he is entitled to his. Opinion, what are you goingbto , get inside his head

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

People can think whatever they want to think, you can't police thoughts. As long as he isn't actively hurting anyone or discriminating against them then you're going to have to just accept that people are entitled to different opinions on things, no matter how much they don't align with your own.

And you don’t think that there might be the teensiest correlation between this kind of individual homophobia and governments depriving gay people of their civil rights in several European countries?

He is entitled to his opinion. But if I had a friend with that opinion they wouldn’t be my friend any more. I can get past a lot of things where someone has a different opinion, as of course we will disagree with people but I couldn’t get past that bigotry.

It always shocks me when I hear racism and homophobia because it seems so outdated and unnatural like I cant believe it still exists. I cant believe people still believe that gay men are a danger to children any more than straight men would be.

How long have you been friends? I'm surprised you didn't already know he was homophobic.

I couldn't be friends with someone who genuinely held those views.

And not juts because I'm a lesbian. Lucky I am though, as I have sons so I'm not sexually attracted to them ...

I’ve found this a really enlightening thread. I’ve come across a few men who seemed threatened by gay men, or thought they shouldn’t teach in boys schools (I’m a teacher, and was applying for a job in a boys school and found myself wondering if they thought there was anything odd in that!). I never quite got it. So thank you to the posters who have raised the following ideas, they make sense:

Some men are basically sex-pests and view women only as sexuL possibilities. So they assume gay men would think about men this way (including them) And this makes them uncomfortable

Men that think parenting is basically “women’s work” can’t imagine that a pair of gay men could parent a child.

I’d never considered either of those points of view. Kind of makes sense when I think about the sort of people I’ve heard voicing such opinions.....

Devils advocate might say what about twinks fascination and homosexual men or the idea of the opressed homosexuals in churches and abusing children to express their homosexuality because they are easier to control?

There was some church people who came out as gay and links were made between being unable to come out and then abusing tweens and teens who were seen as a discreet option which wouldnt out them. Im trying to remember the names..it was in the news, irish or italians unsurprisingly.

I personally dont think gay men are paedophiles. I'm trying to articulate what some people who hold the ops friends view think like that.

The opinions of people who you think you know well and have lots in common with can floor you sometimes!

I don't agree with your friend at all - I don't think his opinion is homopobic as such, but it's certainly narrow minded people can be and that there is prejudice against gay people. I do agree with PP whether it's also to do with how some people view women.

Does, he have children? I never really had any opinion on the subject myself before children I felt if same sex couples wanted to adopt, that was up to them; but since having my daughter things like child absue and neglect resonate with me so much more and it seems so much more important to me that children are loved and cared for than the dynamic of their family. Loving parents or guardians are all that children need.

@AnySauces

Devils advocate might say what about twinks fascination and homosexual men or the idea of the opressed homosexuals in churches and abusing children to express their homosexuality because they are easier to control?

There was some church people who came out as gay and links were made between being unable to come out and then abusing tweens and teens who were seen as a discreet option which wouldnt out them. Im trying to remember the names..it was in the news, irish or italians unsurprisingly.

I personally dont think gay men are paedophiles. I'm trying to articulate what some people who hold the ops friends view think like that.

Do let’s unpick this. Why would it be ‘Irish or Italians, unsurprisingly?’

@crazychemist I went to an all girl school and our PE teacher was a lesbian. There were plenty of mums that didn't think she should be allowed in the changing room or teaching swimming. It's not just men who hold these views.

@IMNOTSHOUTING I’ve reported your vile post. Have a word with yourself! You talk about giving your children good morals! With language like that I think you have a lot of work to do!

@AnySauces
irish or italians unsurprisingly

Pardon?

It is depressing OP but sometimes people are brought up with these views and just never have cause to examine them or question them. I think you handled this well, attempting to get him to question his prejudices and not automatically cutting him out.

Personally, I think we've all held at least one shitty, bonkers belief at some time or other in our lives and we only really change our views after having conversations like this.

He thinks only a man and a woman should be raising a child otherwise it's unnatural...**

I don’t see what’s difficult to comprehend OP. This part isn’t wrong and I agree with your friend here. he is right it’s unnatural

I have nothing against gay people at all. Let’s not pretend though that it can’t be complex if someone is in denial or worried about being openly gay..... & to throw a child into the mix could well be confusing for the child. It’s not the norm.

My MIL said the exact same thing about gay men being attracted to adopted sons, I couldn’t actually believe my ears, worst of all she said it in front of a family member who’s son and his husband were in the process of adopting.
There really is no helping some people!!

By Italian i meant the cathloc and Vatican, their history with dealing and denying child sexual abuse is well documented ditto irish church scandals.

Hopefully these views will become part of the past just like the anti trans comments on the feminism FWR board. Unless of course biology can apply to one discussion and not the other.

Well he does sound like a prick but I do think it would be hard for children to grow up without a mother figure, I know single dads do a great job etc. but not ideal, especially for girls. Nothing to do with anyone's sexuality though.

I know people still hold views like this, but no one I know does.

The DC's schools are packed with young people who would challenge homophobia, and gay friends of both sexes are open and happy in the school environment. All the teens I know, many, would be exasperated by such benighted idiocy. And they are all pupils at S London comprehensives.

No one in my family, from my 89 year old parents to the children who are old enough to know think like this.

We had a two-mum family in our NCT ante natal class and another in the Tea group. The kids have grown up with it. It's normal, every day and not worthy of comment.

How come you have been friends and have only just discovered that this is what he thinks?

I had a conversation with an older relative, she's nearly 70 and her views are so dated on race, colour and sexuality. She has sweeping statements about both that are massive offensive.

I try to "broaden" her mind but sadly to no avail, it's not her age as my mum was only a few years younger and more educated on this as is my father.

Sadly my Aunt has raised her son, who believes the same views she holds. It makes me sad to think my family are so ill educated on these matters and so vile really.

My mum doesn't consider herself homophobic at all but she doesn't think gay people should get married. They can ''play house'' if they want to but marriage is sacred................ Yeh Right.

If straight people were so responsible and good at raising children there wouldn’t be any children available for gay couples to adopt.