So I had this conversation and I find it so weird...

[mopsy2]

Before I start let me say in advance it involves the gay community/same sex couples and so on.
I NC for this as I wanted to keep it separate from my usual chats.

Was catching up with a male friend I haven't spoken to in a while on video call last night. Lots of random subjects being brought up and he mentioned how an European country is passing legislation to stop same sex couples from adopting children and they have also apparently not legalised same sex marriages. He agreed with it and I opposed and the conversation went as follows:

Me: I don't understand how you can be opposed to people marrying who they love /making a family/adopting a child that needs a home.
Him: It's wrong, they can be together but should keep it to themselves, gay men are attracted to penises so if they adopt a boy they might be attracted to him when he's older.
Me (thinking WTF in my head): that's paedophiles, you are talking about paedophiles. Would you be attracted to your DD?
Him: no I know what I'm talking about she's blood relation it's different!
Me: so in your logic if you were ever to adopt a child like you said you've always wanted and it was a girl you might be attracted to her as she grows up since you are straight and attracted to females?
Him (clearly disgusted) : no of course not!

The conversation went down the route of how he wouldn't really like it if there was a gay married couple involved in his community/with a child at his DCs school as they get "all these ideas" and kids get confused and "don't know if they're boys or girls". I told him that he's now talking about gender not sexual preference. It was clear from the way he was speaking that in his head gay people bring some sort of harm to their surroundings but when pressed has no actual examples or valid points. He thinks only a man and a woman should be raising a child otherwise it's unnatural...

The conversation basically ended with him not having many points to back up his views after I asked for specifics and meekly saying how "maybe there's no harm in it but I don't want to see it" and me basically wondering why I got involved in this conversation and stayed on the call for this long.

AIBU to be completely surprised how these opinions are still being held by educated young people in 2020?
Or am I too liberal to not see anything wrong with same sex marriage of adoption?

Am I massively out of touch with today's realities? Does the majority still hold these views?

I don't know if it's been mentioned before but there was a thread here a few weeks back about whether you would hire a male nanny and there were lots of "no but I can't explain why " type answers.

[quote Audreyseyebrows]@AnySauces
irish or italians unsurprisingly

Pardon?[/quote]
Do they mean Catholic?

Eastern Europe has a very traditional conservative outlook even among young people. That includes attitudes to gays, immigrants, non-whites etc. I don't think OP should break the relationship but continue to persuade if she can.

I can't believe there are so many people saying people in their 70s or 80s are generally racist/anti gay. My mother would be near 100 now and she was neither. And a lot of those who fought against racism, sexism and for human rights are in their 60/70/80s now.

A gay couple adopting is no more unnatural than a straight couple adopting.
It’s way less unnatural than, say, pierced ears, or tattoos, or Quorn mince, or antibiotics, or....

@Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone

Hopefully these views will become part of the past just like the anti trans comments on the feminism FWR board. Unless of course biology can apply to one discussion and not the other.

That's a false equivalence, surely?

No one demands to identify as a male-male couple who can biologically (if that is what is meant by 'natural') produce a child together? (Do they? They just want to be a gay couple, of men or women, who are sexually attracted to their own sex, and want to bring up children) This is not about gay-adoptive parents claiming to be the 'natural' - i.e biological parents.

I don't see feminists wanting to deny Transwomen's rights to live as Transwomen, just as no right thinking person wants to deny a gay couples rights to live as gay parents (even though they are not both bio parents) .

Feminists have an objection to Transwomen claiming the right to be defined as biological women. Gay adoptive parents are not demanding the right to be named as bio parents.

I couldn't be friends with someone with those veiws.

You see it on here all time. Though, people equating transgender with "trans-age" which isn't really a thing and paedophilia accusations.

Old school homophobia pure and simple.

@imamearcat Think about it. So girls in a single dad family might want a mother. What about boys with a single mum?

YANBU to challenge such presumptions. Unfortunately as a queer woman I've had a front-row view of the weird logical knots people can tie themselves up into when it comes to the LGBT community. People internalise a lot of ideas that make little sense upon close examination, but it can be hard to make them renounce those ideas as they can become really rooted in their need to feel like the good person in an argument.

To them, they don't "hate" gays, they're just protecting children/the sanctity of marriage/freedom of speech/what have you. It's a shame, but at least more and more people are educating themselves and actually meeting and understanding those they have prejudices against. The effort in changing his mind is definitely appreciated.

@Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone

Hopefully these views will become part of the past just like the anti trans comments on the feminism FWR board. Unless of course biology can apply to one discussion and not the other.

You'll probably get some flack for this, but I agree with you about the anti-trans culture on some of the boards here. Hopefully it'll be less of an issue in the coming years.

@MaskingForIt

If straight people were so responsible and good at raising children there wouldn’t be any children available for gay couples to adopt.

Nail on head.

@Nanny0gg not my view, I quoted someone else.

@MaskingForIt

If straight people were so responsible and good at raising children there wouldn’t be any children available for gay couples to adopt.

Bravo

@crosstalk well that's not ideal either! I just think mums are a bit different. Everyone needs a mum. Sorry if that's sexist or homophobic but that's just what I think.

He's entitled to his views. I would probably just not discuss it with him in future unless I was in the mood for an argument.

I do think there is an issue with men raising children - not that they are paedophiles (although men are WAY more likely to be paedophiles than women, so it's not completely a non-issue either) but more that I think children need a mother. Ideally a mother and a father. I don't think that gay parents are necessarily bad parents (I have gay parents) but I don't think it's ideal either in terms of a child's psychological development. Then again, a lot of family situations aren't ideal, so maybe that's not the most important factor.

I do think that surrogacy and paid-for adoption isn't right, though, and that if gay men want children, they shouldn't be hiring out women's bodies in order to get them.

He's probably gay himself but in denial and on the defensive, no one comfortable with their sexuality is bothered what other people get up to behind closed doors

Really sad that people still hold these views!

But I also think some of my friends probably would too. Just this weird irrational distaste of anyone not in a strait laced hetero relationship. I’ve never pushed them on their views - never been relevant I suppose - but I just have a feeling based on their other views. I don’t think I want to dig too deep though!

Yeah def homophobia and completely ridiculous . Until a friend did it about 5 years ago I did not know you could adopt on your own. She just never met mr right. She is an amazing mum now!

Anysauces those criminal priests abuse children because they are paedophiles.
Not because they are gay.
Fucking hell.
Sexually frustrated gay men don't prey on children.
Paedophiles do that.

As Orwell Said, 'if liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.'

Sure his views, by modern (and my) standards are ridiculous and repugnant. But he is entitled to them. And you are entitled to no longer be friends with him.

Out of interest has anyone else found a complete homophobe like this against normal human behaviour but who refers to their pet as their fur baby.

Yes you did well to try and draw out just how much of a dick they were being! A shame they xouldnt use that to reflect!
Unfortunately I think homophobes are so used to being g agreed they just don't get how much stupid they are displaying.

We are fortunate in the UK to live in an enlightened bubble, where we (well, the vast majority of us) understand that it's just fine to be gay, and/or trans, or any one of a myriad of shades of sexuality and gender. Ideally, these views would be held worldwide, but the truth is that they are not - and it often comes a shock to realise that some countries which appear equally as civilised and developed on the surface still have a majority view of sexual/gender variance as abnormal and 'wrong'. I have been shocked when playing online games with Russian players, for example, at how common it is for them to make anti-gay slurs and consider them to be acceptable.

It's a cultural difference - there are great swathes of the US who hold more conservative views too, it's not just eastern Europe. It may have something to do with the level of secularity in any given country/area - many religions actively preach against any expression of sexuality which doesn't conform to the man/woman standard. It's not always connected to religion, but I think that's where it originates.

I feel a bit patronising typing this - it's fairly obvious, really, when you think about it!

Most of the people I’ve met who have very strong negative views about gay people have turned out to be gay themselves. It’s almost like they’re trying to throw you off the scent.

@Hayeahnobut

Is this Poland? Pretty sure adoption by gay couples is already banned there. Unfortunately opinions that we would class as homophobic are seen as acceptable there.

I do worry that the UK is going the same way, as shown by the 'woke' reference above.

It’s Hungary.

I'd say a lot of people hold those views, as in they dont actively hate gay people, but find it all a bit distasteful so it should be hidden away, or vague confusion about what gay actually means.

I'd agree with this, but it's ironic really because it's only uncomfortable for them because they're spending too much time imagining what those people do when they are alone in bed together. Imagine admitting to that lol. They're the ones being distasteful.

[quote imamearcat]@crosstalk well that's not ideal either! I just think mums are a bit different. Everyone needs a mum. Sorry if that's sexist or homophobic but that's just what I think. [/quote]
That's just so obviously wrong though. Do you think it's better for a child to be stuck in a household with a drug addicted mother or to be adopted by a gay couple? Also yes, it's both sexist AND homophobic! What great things to be.