To wonder why the f* people still think vaccines cause autism?

[coolitcathy]

Name changed for privacy reasons.

Stumbled across a Facebook group about "parents against vaccines" a few minutes ago which suggested, nay STATED, that vaccines cause autism and are essentially poison. I think the hysteria is potentially getting worse due to this Covid vaccination that's getting rolled out at the mo. Is anyone still infuriated or is the anger dying down now as we all get distracted by something else happening? Also why is autism seen as such a bad thing?

(If you're anti vax I'm open to you sharing your viewpoints but I haven't seen any information that makes me consider that outlook)

The world was already there and cannot be built to accommodate autism as how could it. How could we change the world to ensure that my son did not become anxious in every new situation. How do we change it so a severely autistic child as described below has a happy and fulfilling life. Do you realise how insulting that is to parents of severely disabled autistic children or adults. Be practical not ideological. How would you actually change it...give me specifics. We can differentiate sure but that isn't always enough. I am genuinely happy that you and your son celebrate being autistic and don't want to change that but I disagree that your situation is representative of most autistic people.

@NotEver0

Part of why we decided not to have one more DC, despite really wanting one more DC, was that we didn't want to risk a third child with autism. It wouldn't be fair on any of our existing children and it would have pushed us to the brink.

I'm not sure if the discussion "I'd rather my child get measles, mumps or rubella" vs "I wouldn't take the risk" is helpful, in fact it's actually playing in to the anti vax idea that there is a correlation. There isn't.

It is more relevant and accurate to promote the fact that there isn't a correlation, rather than argue about what you would do if there was.

If was a correlation you wouldn't get the option of choosing the vaccine, the risk vs benefit analysis by health authorities would be totally different and the vaccine wouldn't be approved.

@tootiredtospeak

The world was already there and cannot be built to accommodate autism as how could it. How could we change the world to ensure that my son did not become anxious in every new situation. How do we change it so a severely autistic child as described below has a happy and fulfilling life. Do you realise how insulting that is to parents of severely disabled autistic children or adults. Be practical not ideological. How would you actually change it...give me specifics. We can differentiate sure but that isn't always enough. I am genuinely happy that you and your son celebrate being autistic and don't want to change that but I disagree that your situation is representative of most autistic people.

Because you wouldn't recognise us as autistic. You don't recognise most autistic people you see. They're your doctors, professors, engineers, lawyers, accountants.

You only ever talk about the "severe" people, ignoring the fact that you'd wipe out people like me in your utopia. There are NT people with those difficulties as well. Most autistics with those issues are intellectually disabled along with it, which isn't inherent to autism and also affects neurotypicals. Dont conflate the two.

@FoxyTheFox

Autism is a difference. Its a "disability" because people refuse to build the world for us, instead building it for them.

With all due respect, your experience of autism is totally different to someone else's experience of autism. You don't get to say it isn't a disability when, for many people, it is. Shouting down their experiences does their struggles a disservice and minimise the very real difficulties they face on a daily basis. Even of we woke up tomorrow and the world was 100% neuro-inclusive, there would still be autistic people who would struggle. One my children has no sense of danger or risk-assessment capabilities, he would walk off with a stranger as easily as he would walk off with me and once jumped in a lake because there was a duck and he wanted a closer look, no amount of "we're au-tastic" and "its just a difference not a disability" will ever change the fact that he is going to need ongoing support and supervision at a level that exceeds age-related expectations. There are many, many positives about him and I always tell him that he's not wrong, he's just different, but that doesn't make it not a disability.

Yes everyone's experiences of autism is different. Everyone's experiences of being neurotypical is different.

NotEver0 I hear you. And I totally get what you're saying ♥️

Jeez thanks for the specifics of how you would change the world... you are simply one person with autism. Your experience is relevant but you don't speak universally and you cannot dismiss autistic people whose experiences differ to yours. Unless you can give me specifics of how the world could change to make my sons life better I am going to disengage as I feel maybe your just trying to be goady.

@NotEver0 💐💐💐

You said exactly what I wanted to say. I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this,it’s so shit.

OP,I came back to this thread but I think others said what I wanted to say.

I feel fucked over by mother nature. Parents of NT kids can enjoy their life without struggles that autism brings.

I will not enjoy the sight of siblings playing together, will not teach my son how to function independently,will never see him flying the nest.

I got a fucking life sentenceof being a carer to my son.He’s non verbal and still in nappies at the age of nearly 7.
I love him to bits and I’m “lucky”( ha,ha) that he’s not violent (long may it last).
Howling,screming and constantly washing shit of toys,sofa,furniture,bedding...this is autism.
Medical appointments,consultations,phone calls...while juggling pt work(my work keeps me sane and gets me away from him)

If you met one person with autism you met exactly one person with autism,it demonstrates itself in different forms.

Both scans were ok.
No autism in mine or DH’s family

Will always wonder what actually causes it as nobody is able to say? I’m not surprised some people blame MMR- as I said my son was ok and then like somebody flicked a switch.

Maybe it’s some food additives,something considered safe like paracetamol I took for a headache once when pg,some cleaning agentor maybe...what?

I will never get an answer.

I’m not an antivaxxer but I’d like to know what causes this shit to happen.

I also don’t believe that autism is a recent thing but it’s definitely on the rise and something is causing it.

Everybody has different struggles with autism. Personally I wish it never existed

My son is not intellectually disabled btw and he still has had a very hard life but thanks for the patronising suggestion he must be if he isn't like you.

@tootiredtospeak

Jeez thanks for the specifics of how you would change the world... you are simply one person with autism. Your experience is relevant but you don't speak universally and you cannot dismiss autistic people whose experiences differ to yours. Unless you can give me specifics of how the world could change to make my sons life better I am going to disengage as I feel maybe your just trying to be goady.

I'm not being goady. Its weird how you can say you wish people like me were wiped out and thats fine but me saying thats offensive is goady?

@tootiredtospeak

My son is not intellectually disabled btw and he still has had a very hard life but thanks for the patronising suggestion he must be if he isn't like you.

My son has a great life because his mother doesn't wish he was different. Do you ever notice that the parents who are autism positive generally have great children whereas the ones who see it as a negative don't? Funny that.

Dr Wakefield is the one who linked the MMR jab to Autism.
The research methods of the study was shocking and he had his own motives for the research to show these outcomes too (researcher bias).

I'm a teacher and I actually teach this case to my students to show them the importance of not only checking their sources, but to check the research methods of how they actually draw these conclusions (looking for potential bias, what makes a reliable study etc).

I really think it's important to teach people to check their sources and to have the skills to analyse scientific reports to spot reliable/unreliable research.

Ahh shit you are trying to goad me...never mind it's been interesting.

@tootiredtospeak

Ahh shit you are trying to goad me...never mind it's been interesting.

No I'm not. You have pissed me off and I do think that's an interesting observation. Its not something I usually bring up because I'm aware it can be hurtful but given you don't give a crap about hurting me or other autistics, why not.

Cos they’re thick?

@coolitcathy

OP,have you got a child with autism?

No child yet, French but I know the odds are stacked that my child will have autism (my father and my maternal grandfather both have autism that strongly affects their day to day lives, as do I). I'm OK with this because I would support them in any way they needed until the day I die if necessary. There are many hate groups that would prefer me to never have children (or actually probably get euthanised in some cases) but I am worthy of love and care, and so would my children be

I think you have no idea how difficult it is. It robs you of a normal life. It's not just about your child's experience of the world, it your experience. Your one and only life. And when every single thing is ten times harder than it is for the parent of an nt child then who would realise that it is not as Sound Bite as hoping your auristic child gets a parent who doesnt wish he didnt have autism. of course i wish my son was nt. Im lucky because my son can do well if i bend over backwards supporting him. But it is so tiring. So relentless.

My son has a great life because his mother doesn't wish he was different

My sons have a great life and I'm Mary fucking Sunshine when it comes to helping them see the positives but when my child tells me he doesn't want to be different, he doesn't want to struggle, and most of all he doesn't want to be autistic then - yeah - I do wish he wasn't because I'd take it away from him if I could. That doesn't make me, or anyone else who feels that way, a bad parent and just because you're all "rah rah, ain't autism great!" doesn't mean that your experience is the only valid experience. Its is wonderful that you can be so positive and I know considering the experiences of others can be difficult for other people but your life is not definitive, it is not the same life that other people are living and how dare you imply that their children would struggle less if they were simply better parents.

I want an easier life. Im not ashamed to admit that. I also wish my other dc had a more "normal" childhood and a more normal sibling relationship. It makes me roll my eyes to think somebody thinks i shouldnt wish my son was different. I do. Sometimes. Mostly after the more dramatic incidents.

My autistic dd was different from birth - she had low tone meaning she found it hard to latch, she slept very little (for a newborn), she was so hard to comfort. As a baby she rejected people, she lined up toys from about a year ... she was diagnosed at 2.5.

My son has a great life because his mother doesn't wish he was different. Do you ever notice that the parents who are autism positive generally have great children whereas the ones who see it as a negative don't? Funny that.

Not true. That really isn't. How unpleasant.

@Kaliorphic

My son has a great life because his mother doesn't wish he was different. Do you ever notice that the parents who are autism positive generally have great children whereas the ones who see it as a negative don't? Funny that.

Not true. That really isn't. How unpleasant.

No more unpleasant that suggesting we should be systemically wiped out. I was initially fairly reasonable and polite but being constantly told I should be genocided simply for having the audacity to exist tends to irritate.

No one said you should be genocided.

@FoxyTheFox

No one said you should be genocided.

Someone said something about eradicating autism from humanity would be a good thing. That too person earlier.

I didn't and still don't believe Wakefield and his 'movement' and chose to vax ds with MMR way back in 2001. He did have a physical reaction
on the 1st dose, around the point of injection, but he still was vaxed for eveything given throughout.

DS was diagnosed with Autism aged 7 in 2008.
He had a negative physical reaction to the late teen MMR Booster when he was 15/16 (but within the parameters).

I still don't believe the MMR vaccines caused DS's Autism, but I can understand why some might see a cause/explanation/link instead of just accepting reality.

Most importantly though: there is no link between the MMR and autism, there never was it was all made up, there is a tonne of evidence that Andrew Wakefield is a fucking conman and a liar.

His sample size was 12. He’s a fucking quack and a charlatan. And he got struck off, and rightly so. People who believe what he said are idiots.