To wonder why the f* people still think vaccines cause autism?

[coolitcathy]

Name changed for privacy reasons.

Stumbled across a Facebook group about "parents against vaccines" a few minutes ago which suggested, nay STATED, that vaccines cause autism and are essentially poison. I think the hysteria is potentially getting worse due to this Covid vaccination that's getting rolled out at the mo. Is anyone still infuriated or is the anger dying down now as we all get distracted by something else happening? Also why is autism seen as such a bad thing?

(If you're anti vax I'm open to you sharing your viewpoints but I haven't seen any information that makes me consider that outlook)

I always read these threads with interest as they always make it out to be so simple. Its really really not, and I find it insulting that the insinuation is that if you choose not to vaccinate (and this ONLY seems to ever refer to the MMR and not vaccines more generally) you would prefer a dead child to one with autism. Im afraid that's bullshit. I refused the tests for Downs etc. Its irrelevent to me as I would have continued the pregnancy regardless. I would love a child unconditionally with Downs or any other disability just the same as I would a NT child. It doesn't mean I wouldnt choose for them to be NT if I could make that choice- just to make their own lives easier.

I refused the MMR, NOT because I think it causes Autism or anything else for that matter but because I think its dangerous that an awful lot of people including the medical profession refuse to believe that the MMR carries ANY risk of vaccine damage (whilst accepting there is a tiny risk of vaccine damage with every other vaccine). My family history indicates a possible link between disability and the MMR - that doesn't mean that I think the vaccine 'causes' the disability but more that my family has a predisposition to this condition and that particular vaccine could be a trigger for it, or perhaps its something in our genetics that reacts to this vaccine. I refuse to choose a life of disability (or speed up its acquisition) for my child, but if the day comes and they develop it - I will love them just the same.

For the record, when I discussed this with our geneticist he agreed that this could not be ruled out explaining that there is a great deal about genetics that they still don't understand.

Also I wouldn’t change her one bit. So antivaxers who say MMR causes autism can aid off. My DD is not worse than horrible illnesses.

Sod off not aid

No idea why you have put fix in commas twice I didn't use that term I used cure.

Because it's the term that I have heard deaf people use - their deafness isn't (and the blindness you use as an example) are not illness, they are symptoms of a whole host of different illnesses, injuries and conditions. Cochlea implants can reverse deafness in some cases but there are deaf people that refuse them, and refuse them for their children so it is not always a case of a cure being universally welcomed.

@tootiredtospeak

Would the eradication of ASD be for NT people though or so people with it didn't have to suffer. As a parent faced with that choice if you were ever given it I would be stunned if people didn't leap at the chance. Which brings you back to the vaccine argument which is people being scared that they could make a decision that could affect their child's life in a negative way. I don't agree with it and am certain my sons is genetic but I understand the fear and where it comes from. One day my son may have to decide if he fathers a child who will be predisposed to being autistic and this is a difficult choice if you know that your own life has not been an easy path.

To address your first point - we "suffer" because society doesn't accept us rather than any intrinsic issue with us. Removing ASD isn't the answer to that. Its a bit like any form of discrimination, the people themselves aren't the problem, its the negative treatment they're receiving that is.

@JustOneMoreStep

I always read these threads with interest as they always make it out to be so simple. Its really really not, and I find it insulting that the insinuation is that if you choose not to vaccinate (and this ONLY seems to ever refer to the MMR and not vaccines more generally) you would prefer a dead child to one with autism. Im afraid that's bullshit. I refused the tests for Downs etc. Its irrelevent to me as I would have continued the pregnancy regardless. I would love a child unconditionally with Downs or any other disability just the same as I would a NT child. It doesn't mean I wouldnt choose for them to be NT if I could make that choice- just to make their own lives easier.

I refused the MMR, NOT because I think it causes Autism or anything else for that matter but because I think its dangerous that an awful lot of people including the medical profession refuse to believe that the MMR carries ANY risk of vaccine damage (whilst accepting there is a tiny risk of vaccine damage with every other vaccine). My family history indicates a possible link between disability and the MMR - that doesn't mean that I think the vaccine 'causes' the disability but more that my family has a predisposition to this condition and that particular vaccine could be a trigger for it, or perhaps its something in our genetics that reacts to this vaccine. I refuse to choose a life of disability (or speed up its acquisition) for my child, but if the day comes and they develop it - I will love them just the same.

For the record, when I discussed this with our geneticist he agreed that this could not be ruled out explaining that there is a great deal about genetics that they still don't understand.

Thats perfectly reasonable. Two out of three of my DCs haven't had it due to there being a potential issue with allergies and immune systems and their pediatrician advising against it. That doesn't make someone an antivaxxer though, as far as I'm aware when someone says antivaxxer they mean people ideologically opposed to vaccines at all rather than declined certain ones due to medical issues.

@tootiredtospeak

I see your point but also how much of you is simply you...your personality and what makes you you. The stupid saying of everybody is on the spectrum a little bit drives me nuts but the sentiment of how personality traits then can be defined as autistic traits is there. My son is very black and white finds it hard to empathise and take on board other points of view. This we have been told is his autism but is it or would he be like that without it.. who knows as it defines him. He hates it it ...it doesn't sound like you do which is really good to know. Without autism I still believe my son would still be himself but without all the harder bits. Or maybe he wouldn't he would be a NT person with anxiety who lacks empathy sleeps poorly and finds it hard to take joy out of life. That said he is 19 and could very much change his mind as he gets older only time will tell. I know my opinion isn't popular about eradicating autism but I still think it would be the right thing to do if medically safe and possible. Abortion no...selection of Gene's...possibly.

My autism is part of who I am. My sons autism is part of who he is. It colours the entire way we see the world. Its like trying to take an egg out of a baked cake. You'd get something completely different.

Your opinion is close to eugenics, by the way. You don't have a right to exist more than I do, why do you want to erase people like me? Why do you hate us?

I haven't RTFT but:

1. Because one criminally minded doctor published a paper aeons ago claiming that there was a link between the MMR and autism.

2. Even though (1) has been thoroughly debunked and the doctor found guilty in a criminal trial, some thick as mince people continue to think 'no smoke without a fire'.

3. There is a lasting historical legacy of vaccination programs in developing countries coming with strings attached, mixed with a usually well-deserved popular political mistrust of the West. People with immigrant backgrounds from those countries might have a very different perception of vaccination programs than is generally found in the UK.

“Measles, mumps and rubella aren't normally fatal in the UK”
Oh I wonder why!!
Anti vaxxers are idiots. My mother told me that her mother said anyone who had witnessed the many little white coffins emerging throughout the neighbourhood every time there was a measles outbreak would jump at the chance to protect their children.

You are looking at it too emotionally invested and as part of your personality and make up. I don't see it that way I see it as disability and if medically science can change that then to me that should happen. We can agree to disagree. I don't hate anyone.

It's all very well sitting observing and judging those who say they wished there had been prenatal testing for Autism.Its disgusting to say that these people should never have been parents.Its doesnt need to be said that Autism isnt all Rain man and geniuses who find social situations difficult.

My son is 10,he is severely autistic with severe learning disabilities. LIFE has been bloody hell dye to the life we have because if his Autism and I've been suicidal more times than I care to think about. He cant speak, doesnt know who anyone is,attacks me,pulling my hair out,biting and scratching me raw,headbutting me.He is still in nappies and will most likely be for the rest of his life.He doesnt sleep more than couple of hours at night and destroys our home regularly.He cant walk as he runs away so is in a wheelchair when out.He screams all day and night.He will likely go into residential care when hes an adult,by which time I'm sure I'll have had a stroke,heart attack or breakdown. I live for him and love him,I have no life of my own.
I wish I'd never had him. I Must be a fucking atrocious mother according to all of you judging from your sofas or with your high functioning Autistic children.
I wish I could have 'seen"he was autistic on a scan so I could have aborted him and not suffered this miserable existence and have the added torture of knowing he ll never get better.
I'm not an anti vaxxer but my god parents of Autistic children have the right to question and wonder and be sceptical if they wish about why their child has turned out like this.

@tootiredtospeak

You are looking at it too emotionally invested and as part of your personality and make up. I don't see it that way I see it as disability and if medically science can change that then to me that should happen. We can agree to disagree. I don't hate anyone.

You're not autistic so how you see it doesn't really matter. You don't get to tell us what is and isn't part of our personality. Would you tell a homosexual person that you want to cure their sexuality or that it isn't part of their identity? I would certainly hope not. Dont see why this is any different.

@NotEver0 that is a very brave post.
for you

@NotEver0
my sympathy & hugs- I can't imagine how hard everyday life for you & I don't "blame" you in anyway for feeling like this - I think its quite understandable

DS2 has autism, I knew he was different from him being days old. He was diagnosed very early with autism, he had all the classic signs from being little. I still let him have all his immunisations.

@NotEver0. I certainly wouldn't judge you for your feelings.

Homosexuality isn't a disability. Autism is ridiculously hard for most people who have it and the people who love those that have it. You do not get to speak for every autistic person either. Neither of us can we have opposing views. I accept yours you need to accept mine.

I hear you @Notever0 my son is also severly autistic ,he's 10 too ,he's non verbal and just about out of nappies ( still accidents though) he does sleep though and isn't agressive apart from when he's frustrated ,I know how hard we have it so can empathize to some extent .

@tootiredtospeak

Homosexuality isn't a disability. Autism is ridiculously hard for most people who have it and the people who love those that have it. You do not get to speak for every autistic person either. Neither of us can we have opposing views. I accept yours you need to accept mine.

No actually, I don't have to accept the view of people who want me and my son genocided.

Autism is a difference. Its a "disability" because people refuse to build the world for us, instead building it for them.

Wasn’t it just the MMR jab that supposedly had links with developing autism (the disproved paper mentioned earlier in the thread)? Not heard of claims for other vaccines. Vaccine damage is real though.

It has not been proved conclusively that vaccines have not caused bad reactions. Compensation has been paid out in Italy. That's what makes me suspicious.

I had a very sick child after the first set of vaccinations. We spent three nights in hospital, he was given fluids and put on a breathing monitor.

I'm not worried about autism but there are side effects and as a first time parent,
I believe even if you were a 4th time parent, you wouldn't forget this. I will never forget this, it was the worst time of my life.

I went to a private vaccination clinic in London after and got a consultation and my child's vaccination schedule is no longer what the government recommends and I could not care less what anyone thinks. The side effects made it personal. I'm not an anti vaxxer but my second child will also follow the slower schedule. Ever since we follow the slower schedule, he's had no reactions apart from slight irritability as the injection site hurt.

Just after his second birthday his vaccinations will be up to date with the country's established plan.

@NoteverO. That's a brave post that you have written. It takes courage to say if you know about the life your child was going to have you that you would have had an abortion.
The truth is your dealing with so much in a daily basis and your probably fighting for some extra services, respite ect.
One of my friends has a child with autism and she has put so much work into them since they were diagnosed to help them reach their full potential. Her child would be high functioning but even with this I have seen some of the challenges she has had to deal with. My friend did some research within her family and it appears that in the past she had relatives that would be regarded now as having autism.
I know that your going through so much on a daily basis. Even pre covid did you ever get some respite care for him? It's important that you try and get help because you need this for your own physical and mental health.
The truth is that it's very easy for people to say X but if they were dealing with your life on daily basis they could think the same.

Autism is a difference. Its a "disability" because people refuse to build the world for us, instead building it for them.

With all due respect, your experience of autism is totally different to someone else's experience of autism. You don't get to say it isn't a disability when, for many people, it is. Shouting down their experiences does their struggles a disservice and minimise the very real difficulties they face on a daily basis. Even of we woke up tomorrow and the world was 100% neuro-inclusive, there would still be autistic people who would struggle. One my children has no sense of danger or risk-assessment capabilities, he would walk off with a stranger as easily as he would walk off with me and once jumped in a lake because there was a duck and he wanted a closer look, no amount of "we're au-tastic" and "its just a difference not a disability" will ever change the fact that he is going to need ongoing support and supervision at a level that exceeds age-related expectations. There are many, many positives about him and I always tell him that he's not wrong, he's just different, but that doesn't make it not a disability.