To wonder why the f* people still think vaccines cause autism?

[coolitcathy]

Name changed for privacy reasons.

Stumbled across a Facebook group about "parents against vaccines" a few minutes ago which suggested, nay STATED, that vaccines cause autism and are essentially poison. I think the hysteria is potentially getting worse due to this Covid vaccination that's getting rolled out at the mo. Is anyone still infuriated or is the anger dying down now as we all get distracted by something else happening? Also why is autism seen as such a bad thing?

(If you're anti vax I'm open to you sharing your viewpoints but I haven't seen any information that makes me consider that outlook)

@PicsInRed

They don't want to believe it's genetics. Grief is complicated.

This sums up what I was about to type.

I want to know why they hate autistic people, tbh.

It bugs me that Andrew Wakefield is now off shagging Elle MacPhearson and not rotting in jail.

I also have an autistic child and it's such an insult that people would rather risk a child with autism than one who may go deaf or blind from measles. My grandma's little sister died of measles as a toddler. I bet my great-grandmother would have given anything for there to be a vaccine.

Can someone explain the "grief" part?
I can understand how it can be difficult to accept that your child deviates from the norm to some extent and will have a (generally) harder time with life, but being so upset to an extent of convincing yourself of a lie and trying to sway other people onto it seems extreme. It is, after all, the same child you've been dealing with for probably years by the age of diagnosis

@coolitcathy I honestly don’t know, supposedly she started talking and doing other little things, then she had the jab and stopped doing anything. She has non verbal autism.

But yes I think she was diagnosed at the same time that the report came out linking the two, so maybe they just latched onto that.

My family are convinced that the MMR jab causes autism after a family member supposedly was fine until they had the MMR jab and then developed autism

Yes, because the age when you get the jab is around the time the signs of autism start to become more obvious. They always had it.

It happens because for some autistic children they really do “seem normal” and then very suddenly they don’t. Having experienced it myself it’s shocking and you think there has to be a reason for it. My first thought was a medication that one of my twins had been on from birth and stopped shortly before, not that stopping caused autism but that it could have somehow caused the regression. There’s no evidence for this though. If he’d been vaccinated a week before I’d probably have wanted to attribute it to that and may have been vulnerable to these charlatans myself.

The biggest fear i have with vaccines is allergic reactions. When I was 14, I had to stay in hospital for a bit and a girl in the room next to me had had an allergy to some jab. She went from being a popular happy 13 year old to rolling around, having fits, barely recognised anyone in the room. I made friends with her family and her mum used to ask if I would talk to her because she wanted her daughter to have a friend her own age, to see if it would help trigger any memories. I used to hold her hand and show her photos of things, the memory of that has stayed with me forever and it did make me worry about vaccines. Its VERY rare though.

He didn't actually state that; he simply said it would benefit from further research.

In his Lancet piece he deliberately falsified research evidence of a causal link between the MMR vaccine and a new form of autism called autistic enterocolitis, occurring within two weeks of vaccination in eight of 12 children.

In his press conference following his dismissal by the Royal Free he claimed further research was necessary.

Oh well, funky well done to you for being able to see through all of that. Truly though, autism is not the worst thing a child can have, contrary to popular beliefs. I've seen the casual use of the word "r*tarded" all over certain FB groups, and it just fits into this idea that all autistic children are either coarse representations of that slur or emotionally repressed unempathetic Sherlock savants. Rather than y'know, real human beings.

I'm autistic and so is ds2. It's very hurtful knowing that others resent our existence and would rather risk their kids deaths than have a vaccination. It's a very bad message to put around. People think autistic people don't read what others put out there. It's every bit as bad as racism or homophobia.

Both my kids had the MMR. I didn't hesitate, as I know what preventable diseases can do to people.

Autism is a socially acceptable hate and people are never shy in voicing their opinions about autistic people. I'm virtually a recluse now and know ds2 will face the same challenges.

OP,have you got a child with autism?

I’m not surprised that some people believe the vaccines causes autism. My son was ok till about 18-24 months,babbling some words and bang! they disappeared.

So that was me leaving the hospital with my perfect baby,our family complete with the vision of two boys playing together.

What I got from the age 18 months and onwards was a child screaming for hours,not sleeping,no interacting ans staring into the walls.

I have asked myself what have I done that he is like this?

Need to go, he needs me,happy to discuss later

i'm sorry to hear it farawayplanet. I'm autistic too and I won't shy away from vaccinating my kids. My boyfriend used to play videogames with his friends and his friends used words like "r*tarded" and autistic as an insult (in the context of "wow you really suck at this game, what are you autistic" blah blah). People just don't understand the condition and can't be arsed with learning or empathising. I'm quite reclusive too, but I've got my fingers crossed that the world becomes kinder to autistic people and to your DS2 x

I am not anti vax but it is not correct to state they are choosing a dead child over an autistic one. This isn't what is happening is it? You're just whipping people up into a frenzy by saying that.

@coolitcathy

Fundamentally people would really GENUINELY prefer dead kids over autistic ones. That's further than being stupid, that's a complete empathy bypass in my book

This almost made me laugh in a sad but true way. Because you’re right and it’s so ridiculous. The debunked research is proof that mud sticks. I just can’t find common ground with anti vaxers at all.

Autism is a spectrum @coolitcathy ,I don't believe my child's autism was caused by vaccines ,he has an underlying chromosome deletion which is believed to be the cause ,but I can certainly understand the greif my child has severe autism and severe learning disabilities he is non verbal and will never live independently ,he is far from on his own you go to any special school and there are lots of children like him, I love him dearly of course but his life and ours doesn't just deviate from the norm to some extent ,it is as far from the norm as you can imagine

OP,have you got a child with autism?

No child yet, French but I know the odds are stacked that my child will have autism (my father and my maternal grandfather both have autism that strongly affects their day to day lives, as do I). I'm OK with this because I would support them in any way they needed until the day I die if necessary. There are many hate groups that would prefer me to never have children (or actually probably get euthanised in some cases) but I am worthy of love and care, and so would my children be

I am not anti vax but it is not correct to state they are choosing a dead child over an autistic one. This isn't what is happening is it? You're just whipping people up into a frenzy by saying that.

No, it is. There are facebook groups saying don't vaccinate your kids at all because vaccines cause autism. I can link you to a ton of things about people and groups being anti-autism if that helps. It is what's happening, listen closely.

I think it isn't about the vaccines causing it but a lack of understanding on what genetics can play and what impact vaccines can have in some cases. Repeat SOME.

No point to be putting in here I am pro vaccine, because the pitch forks will probably come out anyhoos. However, due to a genetic make up several members of my family have reacted to vaccines and I myself have legitimately been advised not to have some of them by drs and specialists (not all, hence my pro vac comment).

In my opinion if they spoke out about this, reassured people and didn't cover it up with hefty pay outs and stuff on the NHS website stating how you can claim for a vaccine reaction anti vaxxers would have no arguments.

In my case, it was a general advisement but I have since had a really easy blood test that has told me WHY there is a familial issue with some vaccines.

Because the main stream media with little to no understanding of medical papers published sensationalist reports which skewered people’s perception.

Andrew Wakefield is entirely responsible for his flawed and manipulated research and ‘results’. But the media are responsible for the widespread misinformation and ignorance that still pervades today.

sorry bit off topic as this isn't related to vaccination but it is related to autism and public perception. watch this (a horrifying PSA from the largest autism advocacy network in the US).

So...these people would prefer their child to die/become disabled/have a lifelong health condition than having a child with autism???

That's basically what they're saying. They'd prefer their child to die of measles or covid.

I want to know why they hate autistic people, tbh.

I don't think people do hate people with autism. But the term covers a wide range of people and abilities, and for those who can lead a relatively normal life, it's not particularly a problem. For those at the very far end of that, I don't think you can begin to imagine just how difficult life can be, for both them and the families that care for them. I've worked with people who are convinced that the MMR have caused it. I understand, having heard their stories, and seen just how hard their lives are, why they think that, even though the evidence appears to suggest otherwise.

@WhipperSnapperSteve

He didn't actually state that; he simply said it would benefit from further research.

In his Lancet piece he deliberately falsified research evidence of a causal link between the MMR vaccine and a new form of autism called autistic enterocolitis, occurring within two weeks of vaccination in eight of 12 children.

In his press conference following his dismissal by the Royal Free he claimed further research was necessary.

Have you read the paper Whipper?

“ We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue.
If there is a causal link between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and this syndrome, a rising incidence might be anticipated after the introduction of this vaccine in the UK in 1988. Published evidence is inadequate to show whether there is a change in incidence22 or a link with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine.23

...

We have identified a chronic enterocolitis in children that may be related to neuropsychiatric dysfunction. In most cases, onset of symptoms was after measles, mumps, and rubella immunisation. Further investigations are needed to examine this syndrome and its possible relation to this vaccine.”

Honestly, I think this may have been another early example of the media whipping people up into a frenzy with crappy, inaccurate reporting.

As someone who teaches wonderful children with autism and has studied it, I believe genetics causes autism, there’s so many families where brothers, sisters, Dads, Grandpas etc are somewhere on the spectrum. And I always love how the older generation has decided it’s a new thing they never had back in their day (no you just took the autistic children, locked them away to die in hospitals that’s why you didn’t see them).