To wonder why the f* people still think vaccines cause autism?

[coolitcathy]

Name changed for privacy reasons.

Stumbled across a Facebook group about "parents against vaccines" a few minutes ago which suggested, nay STATED, that vaccines cause autism and are essentially poison. I think the hysteria is potentially getting worse due to this Covid vaccination that's getting rolled out at the mo. Is anyone still infuriated or is the anger dying down now as we all get distracted by something else happening? Also why is autism seen as such a bad thing?

(If you're anti vax I'm open to you sharing your viewpoints but I haven't seen any information that makes me consider that outlook)

My son too I know it's not everyone's opinion but autism is a disability for a reason its can lead to an incredibly hard and disadvantaged life.

I agree and empathise with you, tootiredtospeak. Autism shouldn't be celebrated (in the context of "waheyy, let's all go and get autism!"!) but it should be accepted and acknowledged for what it is. It's a disability, but not a character flaw or parental death knell as some seem to see it.

@tootiredtospeak

Urghh I have seen this on Facebook and it's hard not to get annoyed with people trying to convince parents not to vaccinate as there is a risk it could cause autism. I do struggle with the whole autism is to be celebrated thing though. I love my DS and he is high functioning but my God it's been so hard and it still is for him for me life is always an uphill struggle. I have never met anyone yet in all the support groups and people I know that said if this was a choice then its one they would say no too. So in that sense if something did cause it and medical science could prevent this in the future then I would be all for that. My son too I know it's not everyone's opinion but autism is a disability for a reason its can lead to an incredibly hard and disadvantaged life.

Have you asked any autistic people, or just their parents? Most autistic adults are very vocal about not wanting a cure and not wanting to be different to how they are.

I wouldn't change my son or myself, at any rate.

ScottishPeopleTwitter on Reddit is always full of wisdom.

Have you seen blog posts and videos by non verbal people? The level of understanding is greater than people realise. While some people have learning disabilities, so do some neurotypical people. The LD isn't part of autism.

Yes I have. And yes some people's understanding is greater than others. Not all people are the same. Autism covers a wide range of people.

And what about these non verbal Autistic adults who can't speak for themselves @ForestNymph I love my son dearly of course I do but it's very challenging being the parent of a child whose autism impacts the whole family the way it does ,he needs 1:1 care and won't ever live independently.

@Kaliorphic

Have you seen blog posts and videos by non verbal people? The level of understanding is greater than people realise. While some people have learning disabilities, so do some neurotypical people. The LD isn't part of autism.

Yes I have. And yes some people's understanding is greater than others. Not all people are the same. Autism covers a wide range of people.

Of course it does, but so does neurotypical (non autistic). There are NTs who are intellectually disabled or need care and support. Thats the point I'm making.

My son is diagnosed autistic, I'm fairly sure both myself and my dad and possibly my dads mother all are on the spectrum. It was said to me when my son was diagnosed that I seemed like I probably was too. All of us have "normal", if a bit eccentric, lives. Now thats not the case for every autistic but its not the case for every non autistic either. Autistics are as varied as non autistics.

I love my son dearly of course I do but it's very challenging being the parent of a child whose autism impacts the whole family the way it does ,he needs 1:1 care and won't ever live independently.

It's an impactful disorder, x2boys. Could you explain what you're advocating for / responding to though? Sorry little confused about the context, probably just me

I'm a fully vaccinated adult with autism and I find anti-vaxxers' shiz highly insulting.

Not that I believe for a second that vaccines have anything to do with autism (my family alone is highly compelling evidence that it has, if nothing else, a strong genetic / hereditary component), but even if they did, AVs would prefer that I was dead than autistic?

That's pretty fucking ablist, apart from anything else.

@x2boys

And what about these non verbal Autistic adults who can't speak for themselves *@ForestNymph* I love my son dearly of course I do but it's very challenging being the parent of a child whose autism impacts the whole family the way it does ,he needs 1:1 care and won't ever live independently.

I appreciate it is challenging. I've had moments that have tested me with my own son and he has what used to be called aspergers, which is the less intensive side of it to an extent.

But lots of people who it was assumed couldn't ever speak were found to have full understanding and with certain tools, could type or use assistance technology. Not saying this is the case for your son, I don't know him obviously, but I think its incredibly hopeful and optimistic that many people are finding ways to share their voice

A friend of mine also an NHS worker is convinced this happened to her daughter. She lost all speech and yes all speech apparently and had a terrible fever and seizures the day after her 3 year old vaccine. Was never the same again. Also going through the vaccine damage procedure.
I have a son who is ASD and I’m certain it’s not vaccines and I knew from way early on but maybe just maybe there is something in it for some kids? Maybe more prone to be affected genetically ? I don’t know but I do know there wouldn’t be a department of vaccine damage if it didn’t affect a small rate maybe percentage.

@LadyJaye

I'm a fully vaccinated adult with autism and I find anti-vaxxers' shiz highly insulting.

Not that I believe for a second that vaccines have anything to do with autism (my family alone is highly compelling evidence that it has, if nothing else, a strong genetic / hereditary component), but even if they did, AVs would prefer that I was dead than autistic?

That's pretty fucking ablist, apart from anything else.

Exactly what I think about it.

I'm responding to the fact that it's a spectrum and some people are very disabled by their autism it's not just a difference for many people and their families it's a severe disability which affects all aspects of their life

@x2boys

I'm responding to the fact that it's a spectrum and some people are very disabled by their autism it's not just a difference for many people and their families it's a severe disability which affects all aspects of their life

But there are non autistic people who have those problems too. Those problems aren't inherently tied to being autistic. At its heart, all autism is is a different way of processing things. Its not objectively better or worse than the neurotypical way.

The MMR kind of clashes at the same time when regression happens, so it's easy to link it. Vaccines do have risks, but being exposed to the illnesses where the vaccines work is greater.

@Pukkatea

I’m not sure why you addressed that comment about the Lancet to me. I quoted from and linked to the paper for anyone who wants to read it. It does not state that the mmr causes autism - as I quoted, it actually states that they did not prove an association between the MMR and the syndrome described. It also states that more research is necessary.

I was pointing that out for a PP who said it wasn’t written in the paper, only said at a press conference.

My son is diagnosed autistic, I'm fairly sure both myself and my dad and possibly my dads mother all are on the spectrum. It was said to me when my son was diagnosed that I seemed like I probably was too. All of us have "normal", if a bit eccentric, lives.

That's great that you live normal lives. No one I work with does, which is why I do the job I do. Autism covers a wide range of abilities. I work at the far end of that. Yes other groups of people also have difficulties and need care and support. 🤷‍♀️ Not sure what point you're trying to make tbh.

@Kaliorphic

My son is diagnosed autistic, I'm fairly sure both myself and my dad and possibly my dads mother all are on the spectrum. It was said to me when my son was diagnosed that I seemed like I probably was too. All of us have "normal", if a bit eccentric, lives.

That's great that you live normal lives. No one I work with does, which is why I do the job I do. Autism covers a wide range of abilities. I work at the far end of that. Yes other groups of people also have difficulties and need care and support. 🤷‍♀️ Not sure what point you're trying to make tbh.

The point I'm making is that autism itself isn't necessarily a bad thing and I'm sick of antivaxxers making out our lives are tragedies that need avoiding

The point I'm making is that autism itself isn't necessarily a bad thing and I'm sick of antivaxxers making out our lives are tragedies that need avoiding

You're right. It's not necessarily a bad thing. And I didn't say it was. But at someone at the far end of that, and the absolute stress, trauma and heartbreak of it all might not feel the same way as you. The parents I know love their kids, but for some of them in those honest moments, do they wish their lives were different? Yes they do. Your experience is yours. Their experience is theirs. Both very different. With different outcomes for different people. There's no point trying to conflate the experience of everyone to make one argument. It simply doesn't work.

The point I'm making is that autism itself isn't necessarily a bad thing and I'm sick of antivaxxers making out our lives are tragedies that need avoiding

I hear you, @ForestNymph. If there was a way to project myself into a land that was suited for my needs as an autistic person (probably a farm, very minimal social interaction where I don't need to demonstrate facial expressions, no social judgement, no judgement to work but the capacity to do interesting work with clear instructions, a quiet environment etc etc) a lot of my needs that are caused by my autism would go away. I wouldn't be a neurotypical, but I wouldn't be disabled in the same way and so in that context it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing (though it's still not a bad thing now, it's just a bit more of a struggle adapting to a world not suited to me).

I also don't go by the whole "high, low functioning" labels as I just see them as how people perceive me rather than what I am. E.g. of course I'll seem high functioning because I can articulate myself and I'm relatively pretty (in the context of how people imagine autistic people ) but I have situations, especially social and work ones, where I can't function at all and need someone to support me almost entirely.

Anyway, sorry big tangent. But I hear you, that autistic people need to not be the worst fears of certain parents. There are different struggles you experience as an autistic person and I imagine as the parent of an autistic person, but I really genuinely hope no-one actually wishes their child or themselves dead (or seriously ill).

@coolitcathy

The point I'm making is that autism itself isn't necessarily a bad thing and I'm sick of antivaxxers making out our lives are tragedies that need avoiding

I hear you, @ForestNymph. If there was a way to project myself into a land that was suited for my needs as an autistic person (probably a farm, very minimal social interaction where I don't need to demonstrate facial expressions, no social judgement, no judgement to work but the capacity to do interesting work with clear instructions, a quiet environment etc etc) a lot of my needs that are caused by my autism would go away. I wouldn't be a neurotypical, but I wouldn't be disabled in the same way and so in that context it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing (though it's still not a bad thing now, it's just a bit more of a struggle adapting to a world not suited to me).

I also don't go by the whole "high, low functioning" labels as I just see them as how people perceive me rather than what I am. E.g. of course I'll seem high functioning because I can articulate myself and I'm relatively pretty (in the context of how people imagine autistic people ) but I have situations, especially social and work ones, where I can't function at all and need someone to support me almost entirely.

Anyway, sorry big tangent. But I hear you, that autistic people need to not be the worst fears of certain parents. There are different struggles you experience as an autistic person and I imagine as the parent of an autistic person, but I really genuinely hope no-one actually wishes their child or themselves dead (or seriously ill).

This is the pont exactly. Society causes a lot of problems for autistic people. For example my son is an attentive student who wants to learn - in a class of 10 and under. Put him in a class of 30 and he refuses to behave because its too noisy and he doesn't like all the sounds/smells/chaos. We seem "disabled" because the world is designed for the majority, if autistics were the majority things would be designed in a way to play to our strengths the same way things do for neurortypicals.

Me too.

My fil believes that his daughter is disabled because of the mmr. This is because of the daily mail reading/believe everything you hear on the tv with no ability to filter it. She is disabled because of a stroke after a febrile convulsion as a small child. This was no way connected to the mmr, how do I know? Because it happened 20 years before the mmr existed.

Yet he is still convinced.

The problem with the media is when they show any type of autism on tv it’s always seems to be severe autism. They never mention it’s a spectrum and every person is different, people are uneducated on autism spectrum disorder and automatically think about more severe cases. Not all people with autism have a hard life. I count my lucky stars that DS 12 who is diagnosed lives a fairly normal life. Yes I have to pick him up from school, only because he can’t Or won’t cross the main road by himself. He goes to the shop by himself, he cooks, he cleans himself,
He helps with house maintenance. Granted he spends most of his time gaming and he does have his own personal challenges. But I wouldn’t change him for the world, he has a heart of gold, a good sense of humour and can be sarcastic. Some ways autism should be celebrated because each person overcomes personal challenges daily. I’d much rather this life than one grieving a dead child.

If I ever become a millionaire, I'll buy a very quiet piece of land and we can all go and live there and do our own thing @ForestNymph

I'm joking in a lighthearted way of course, but even when I was little I wanted to go live on an island and not talk to anyone (still do!). I wish the world were better suited to autistic people, but all I can do is keep pushing through and try and make it better for my future family down the line.

, if autistics were the majority things would be designed in a way to play to our strengths the same way things do for neurortypicals.

Yes but it still wouldn't be would it, as the needs of different people are wildly different. The world that fits you doesn't fit everyone with autism. And the world that fits some people with autism wouldn't fit you. Just like NT people. We're not all the same. And my children struggle to fit with school too for different reasons. 🤷‍♀️

@Boringnamechanging

My fil believes that his daughter is disabled because of the mmr. This is because of the daily mail reading/believe everything you hear on the tv with no ability to filter it. She is disabled because of a stroke after a febrile convulsion as a small child. This was no way connected to the mmr, how do I know? Because it happened 20 years before the mmr existed.

Yet he is still convinced.

Do you or anyone else challenge him about this? What does he say? You really can't argue with that level of delusion.