To wonder why the f* people still think vaccines cause autism?

[coolitcathy]

Name changed for privacy reasons.

Stumbled across a Facebook group about "parents against vaccines" a few minutes ago which suggested, nay STATED, that vaccines cause autism and are essentially poison. I think the hysteria is potentially getting worse due to this Covid vaccination that's getting rolled out at the mo. Is anyone still infuriated or is the anger dying down now as we all get distracted by something else happening? Also why is autism seen as such a bad thing?

(If you're anti vax I'm open to you sharing your viewpoints but I haven't seen any information that makes me consider that outlook)

Do you live on an island away from mainstream society and has your son never interacted with anyone else? If not, unfortunately, there will be some level of influence.

@ForestNymph

Do you live on an island away from mainstream society and has your son never interacted with anyone else? If not, unfortunately, there will be some level of influence.

But don't you see that you can't make the world perfect for yourself and i can't make the world perfect for my son. Therefore I wish I could remove HIS difficulties.

Your ideological desires are not a practical solution.

I'm a realist.

And I know, before you say it, that I can't remove his difficulties.

I just wish his life was easier, as does he.

[quote trulydelicious]**@ForestNymph* and @tootiredtospeak*

Maybe my view is wrong but I think it's not helpful for the autistic spectrum to be so wide - I understand this changed fairly recently

If this had not changed, perhaps you two wouldn't even be having this discussion, as your experiences are clearly different?

e.g. what you would have previously called 'Aspergers' seems miles away from an autistic person with severe limitations - non-verbal, incontinent, etc

It seems as if they were two completely different 'conditions'?[/quote]
Perhaps. Mine and my sons autism would've been called Aspergers 10 years ago. I understand why they merged them as the theory was people with Aspergers were not getting support as we are "just aspies" and it wasn't taken seriously, and on the other hand some autistic people were getting patronised when they were able to make their needs known.

But I do acknowledge there is an issue with the spectrum being very wide in that when talking about autism, what's relevant to one may not be to another. My father, who is an eccentric military historian and grandmaster level chess player, is a different type of autistic to someone who is incontinent and unable to live independently. I do get that. But I still think we need to he careful when presuming to say that non verbal people "cannot communicate" or "would choose to be different".

But you won't EVEN accept the reality that some verbal autistics would choose to be different.

Even when people are telling you that that is their experience.

But surely a wish is what you would want? Given the choice I'd rather change society than myself or my son.

And change can occur. It takes time and won't happen all at once, but it can and does improve. A great example would be something like gay marriage being widely accepted in several countries, whereas 50 years ago that would have been unheard of.

@cantdothisnow1 What does he wish he could do?

@cantdothisnow1

But you won't EVEN accept the reality that some verbal autistics would choose to be different.

Even when people are telling you that that is their experience.

I didn't say that, I even said I appreciate that someone's son earlier said he wishes he was different. I said when asked, MOST autistics say they don't want a cure.

@lemonsquashie I don’t think I’ve met anyone who suggests that vaccines are the cause of all autism.

I myself am against vaccines, more precisely, I am skeptical - and I will not dare to do it myself until I see a positive effect on my acquaintances, for example, I cannot believe in words and television. For example, as a child, I always had a bad flu shot - after that I immediately got very sick, I think that after the vaccine it will be the same, maybe I have weak immunity - but I was not the only one who had such bad consequences (the opposite effect).

@trulydelicious

“ It seems as if they were two completely different 'conditions'?”

Yes, I posted a link to a paper in JAMA Psychiatry earlier which I think got a bit lost in the back and forth conversation. It talked about how the spectrum becoming so wide has led to ever decreasing differences between autistic and non-autistic people and how this can weaken the power of studies into autism.

[quote bumbleymummy]@cantdothisnow1 What does he wish he could do?[/quote]
The stuff that other people do with ease.

Go to the cinema, go bowling for example. Be able to sit in Macdonalds rather than do a drive though and bring it home.

just a few very simple examples of things that he can't do without risking a sensory meltdown. He refuses to wear ear defenders or go at SEN times because he won't acknowledge his differences.

@ForestNymph

But surely a wish is what you would want? Given the choice I'd rather change society than myself or my son.

And change can occur. It takes time and won't happen all at once, but it can and does improve. A great example would be something like gay marriage being widely accepted in several countries, whereas 50 years ago that would have been unheard of.

Unless my son lives in a vacuum I don't think a change in society will help him.

I used to think it might until I removed all demands and he still can't cope.

I just saw you post he refuses to wear ear defenders (my son refuses them too), do you think if he did accept his differences he would find things easier? It sounds like he is fighting against it?

I love ear defenders and walk around my house in them often, I'm always hopeful my son will see me wearing them and just decide its fine to wear them if he wants to.

But I still think we need to he careful when presuming to say that non verbal people "cannot communicate" or "would choose to be different".

Agreed.
But their carers and family are better positioned to assess their needs and choices than are people with Aspergers, who have little insight into what their day to day life really entails.
Many ND don't seem to want to listen to the carers because they're NT though, and that doesn't help anybody.

[quote bumbleymummy]@lemonsquashie I don’t think I’ve met anyone who suggests that vaccines are the cause of all autism.[/quote]
So do you think they may worry that the child could get a second form of autism or current condition worsens by having vaccine at an older age?

@ForestNymph

I just saw you post he refuses to wear ear defenders (my son refuses them too), do you think if he did accept his differences he would find things easier? It sounds like he is fighting against it?

I love ear defenders and walk around my house in them often, I'm always hopeful my son will see me wearing them and just decide its fine to wear them if he wants to.

Well that's nice for you. `My daughter wears them all the time in the house and out of it too.

He won't.

@LizzieAnt

But I still think we need to he careful when presuming to say that non verbal people "cannot communicate" or "would choose to be different".

Agreed.
But their carers and family are better positioned to assess their needs and choices than are people with Aspergers, who have little insight into what their day to day life really entails.
Many ND don't seem to want to listen to the carers because they're NT though, and that doesn't help anybody.

I don't think just because you're a carer for someone, you can speak for them. I gave this example earlier but its a bit like me being a white mum of non white (mixed race) children. I can advocate for them but I will never actually know what its like to experience racism. My husband and children can give lived experiences and I can recount their experiences and empathise but it isn't the same as experiencing it myself. I think this is really similar - if you aren't the person who is non NT, you can't really know

Thanks cant . I was just wondering if it was a physical inability to do something or the overwhelming potential stress/anxiety about the situation that was preventing him.

Re ear defenders - aren’t there discreet little buds that are available now? Perhaps that’s an option? Or is it the sensation of them near/in his ears?

@bumbleymummy

Thanks cant . I was just wondering if it was a physical inability to do something or the overwhelming potential stress/anxiety about the situation that was preventing him.

Mixture of sensory and anxiety/ not wanting to look different. He is physically extremely capable.

Do you think he will come to a place of acceptance? By the way, when I talk about societal change, normalising things like people wearing ear defenders is something that would be great. People shouldn't have to feel weird or different for wearing them.

@bumbleymummy

Re ear defenders - aren’t there discreet little buds that are available now? Perhaps that’s an option? Or is it the sensation of them near/in his ears?

I've thought about those and suggested them, so far he's not interested in even giving them a go.

But thanks for the suggestion.

@lemonsquashie I have no idea what they think. They may have other reasons for not vaccinating that have nothing to do with autism. I just thought you were making the point that they still developed autism despite not being vaccinated as if vaccines were considered to be the only cause.

@ForestNymph

Do you think he will come to a place of acceptance? By the way, when I talk about societal change, normalising things like people wearing ear defenders is something that would be great. People shouldn't have to feel weird or different for wearing them.

They shouldn't but they do. You would think he'd feel less conscious given that his sister wears them all the time.

No idea if he will or he won't. We've been working on it for 4 years now with no progress.