To wonder why the f* people still think vaccines cause autism?

[coolitcathy]

Name changed for privacy reasons.

Stumbled across a Facebook group about "parents against vaccines" a few minutes ago which suggested, nay STATED, that vaccines cause autism and are essentially poison. I think the hysteria is potentially getting worse due to this Covid vaccination that's getting rolled out at the mo. Is anyone still infuriated or is the anger dying down now as we all get distracted by something else happening? Also why is autism seen as such a bad thing?

(If you're anti vax I'm open to you sharing your viewpoints but I haven't seen any information that makes me consider that outlook)

Would they though? When you consider the prospect of your child having autism, you don’t know whether your child will be non verbal and completely unable to communicate their needs or more able to meet their own basic needs with the right support.

Yes, my life would be significantly easier if I hadn’t had to spend a year battling our local authority and taking them to tribunal to get my children into the right school, or if there was sufficient SALT and OT on the NHS, or if social care could actually provide support. All that would make day to day life easier but it wouldn’t make it any easier to see my son distressed, screaming and hitting himself in the head because he wants something very specific and can’t tell us what it is by any means.

I don’t “resent autism”. I’m deeply sad for my children, not because they are different - I couldn’t care less whether my children were different or not. They are significantly impaired, their lives are immeasurably more difficult, they may never be able to communicate their basic needs, let alone their thoughts and feelings. They are both bright so they know what they want, but they are unable to communicate that - that’s a pretty upsetting prospect for any human being to contemplate.

Battling through this system while trying to do your absolute best to parent children with extensive needs is hard enough without being insulted, dismissed and called ableist. I don’t want my children to be neurotypical -I want them to be able to have fulfilling lives they enjoy which will not be easy if they can’t even share basic information or understand basic words. It does not make me ableist to wish this weren’t the case.

@SinkGirl

Would they though? When you consider the prospect of your child having autism, you don’t know whether your child will be non verbal and completely unable to communicate their needs or more able to meet their own basic needs with the right support.

Yes, my life would be significantly easier if I hadn’t had to spend a year battling our local authority and taking them to tribunal to get my children into the right school, or if there was sufficient SALT and OT on the NHS, or if social care could actually provide support. All that would make day to day life easier but it wouldn’t make it any easier to see my son distressed, screaming and hitting himself in the head because he wants something very specific and can’t tell us what it is by any means.

I don’t “resent autism”. I’m deeply sad for my children, not because they are different - I couldn’t care less whether my children were different or not. They are significantly impaired, their lives are immeasurably more difficult, they may never be able to communicate their basic needs, let alone their thoughts and feelings. They are both bright so they know what they want, but they are unable to communicate that - that’s a pretty upsetting prospect for any human being to contemplate.

Battling through this system while trying to do your absolute best to parent children with extensive needs is hard enough without being insulted, dismissed and called ableist. I don’t want my children to be neurotypical -I want them to be able to have fulfilling lives they enjoy which will not be easy if they can’t even share basic information or understand basic words. It does not make me ableist to wish this weren’t the case.

I don't feel sad for my child because they are autistic. And I'm not going to try and qualify that by telling you how severely autistic they are because that's subjective.

I just don't feel sad because they were born this way. My sadness would do neither of us any favours at all.

There are degrees to being non verbal as well.

My 14 year old is very eloquent when he is not under stress or under what he perceives to be a demand.

He can also be completely non verbal (and act out in violence) when his needs are not met or when his emotions are not regulated. At those times he can't verbalise what is wrong at all. It makes helping him extremely difficult.

The trouble is you don't know which version you are going to get on a day to day basis.

And that is even after the normal demands of school etc have been removed.

I just don't feel sad because they were born this way. My sadness would do neither of us any favours at all.

I agree that there is no merit in being sad as it can't change anything and I'm happy for you that you don't have sadness that your child was born this way. But it doesn't make others wrong to have feelings that are different from yours on the subject. It doesn't make them bad parents. It doesn't mean they fight less for their kids.

And most of all having those feelings doesn't equate to wishing all autistics did not exist!

Wishing away a child's disability IS ableism. It's the very definition of it. If that makes you feel livid then you need to question why and find the answer deep within yourself.

If I had known DC1 was autistic in the womb I would have appreciated the choice to have them or not. It would be my choice to make at that point. But I would not appreciate their neurodiversity being framed with negativity. 'We are so sorry...' 'Would you like a termination...'

I don't love my child in spite of their disability. I love their disability as I love them, because it is as much part of them as their brown hair or their green eyes or their inexplicably enormous feet.

@cantdothisnow1

I just don't feel sad because they were born this way. My sadness would do neither of us any favours at all.

I agree that there is no merit in being sad as it can't change anything and I'm happy for you that you don't have sadness that your child was born this way. But it doesn't make others wrong to have feelings that are different from yours on the subject. It doesn't make them bad parents. It doesn't mean they fight less for their kids.

My feeling is that is isn't WRONG to feel sad, but that fewer people might feel sad if society as a whole was less ableist. If parents weren't told 'I'm sorry' when given a diagnosis, for example.

@heydoggee

Wishing away a child's disability IS ableism. It's the very definition of it. If that makes you feel livid then you need to question why and find the answer deep within yourself.

If I had known DC1 was autistic in the womb I would have appreciated the choice to have them or not. It would be my choice to make at that point. But I would not appreciate their neurodiversity being framed with negativity. 'We are so sorry...' 'Would you like a termination...'

I don't love my child in spite of their disability. I love their disability as I love them, because it is as much part of them as their brown hair or their green eyes or their inexplicably enormous feet.

When I was pregnant with my daughter I came up a one in 5 chance of having a child with down syndrome, I refused the amniocentisis and was fully prepared to take on a child with down syndrome had she been born with it.

She is autistic, she has less difficulties than her brother with her autism but she still struggles and I would take away her social struggles in a heart beat so she wouldn't get upset so often. I am not ableist at all for thinking that.

Yes it is part of her, no I don't try to change her but i do try to help her.

So don't lecture me on what I may or may not have done if I knew in pregnancy.

Apologies crossed post.

I didn't lecture you at all @cantdothisnow1 - I stated what I would have done. I wouldn't expect others to do what I would do. I was just giving an example of how I personally approach such things.

Somehow you're furious with me and I have been incredibly fair and measured with you.

Maybe you're furious with me for pointing out what ableism is. I don't know. I never called you ableist.

I am not saying that anyone is necessarily good or bad for feeling something. What I am saying though, is that grieving for your living child is a product of ableism and a product of hatred of the disabled. It is not innate and I also don’t believe it is a healthy thing for families and the disabled people within those families. Feelings about disabled children don’t exist from within a vacuum, but from within an ableist society that devalues them from birth and that teaches others to do the same.

If parents weren't told 'I'm sorry' when given a diagnosis, for example

So you don't think as acknowledging a parent will have to look after a child all their life, right through adulthood, because of the high level of their needs, and the huge emotional and physical impact that it's going to have on the caregiver isn't worth acknowledging then right? No, 'Im sorry that happened, I'm sorry your child will never be independent, I'm sorry that your whole life will be about caring and fighting for your child' Because to do so is ableist. Righty ho 🙄

@Kaliorphic

If parents weren't told 'I'm sorry' when given a diagnosis, for example

So you don't think as acknowledging a parent will have to look after a child all their life, right through adulthood, because of the high level of their needs, and the huge emotional and physical impact that it's going to have on the caregiver isn't worth acknowledging then right? No, 'Im sorry that happened, I'm sorry your child will never be independent, I'm sorry that your whole life will be about caring and fighting for your child' Because to do so is ableist. Righty ho 🙄

100% absolutely not.

Somebody told me they were sorry once when I said my son is autistic and I nearly punched them.

100% absolutely not.

You don't think people should acknowledge that?

I'm not furious with you at all. This is a discussion.

I agree that society is ableist. It is beyond infuriating that in the 5th wealthiest economy we can't even have suitable schools for children with autism who do not have behavioural problems and do not have learning difficulties. The message that sends to them, that they literally have no peer group is absolutely appalling. They are even told that their mental health problems are down to their autism and they don't deserve the mental health support that their NT peers might get.

All of that is shocking. I'd love to change it, I have lobbied my MP for years about this kind of stuff.

But I still despite all of that, and despite the fact I love my children wish they didn't have these difficulties and had an easier ride in life.

There have been suggestions on this thread that this is 'wrongthink' this is what annoys me. It would be wrong and ableist to impart those thoughts on my children or to blame them for their disabilities but that is not what is happening.

@Kaliorphic

100% absolutely not.

You don't think people should acknowledge that?

Why do you need that acknowledged?

Why do you need that acknowledged?

It's called compassion. Something you seem to have very little of.

I wasn't told 'I"m sorry' when my suicidal 10 year old was diagnosed. I was told that his life would be difficult. As it turns out that is the truth.

Someone said they were sorry about my son once and I asked them what they were sorry for. They got very flustered. I used it as a moment to say actually we are proud autistics and we are only sorry that society doesn't see our value.

@cantdothisnow1

I'm not furious with you at all. This is a discussion.

I agree that society is ableist. It is beyond infuriating that in the 5th wealthiest economy we can't even have suitable schools for children with autism who do not have behavioural problems and do not have learning difficulties. The message that sends to them, that they literally have no peer group is absolutely appalling. They are even told that their mental health problems are down to their autism and they don't deserve the mental health support that their NT peers might get.

All of that is shocking. I'd love to change it, I have lobbied my MP for years about this kind of stuff.

But I still despite all of that, and despite the fact I love my children wish they didn't have these difficulties and had an easier ride in life.

There have been suggestions on this thread that this is 'wrongthink' this is what annoys me. It would be wrong and ableist to impart those thoughts on my children or to blame them for their disabilities but that is not what is happening.

I'm not pointing at individuals here. I'm gesturing broadly at society. Disabled children are not adequately supported. Neither are their parents. There aren't enough specialised provisions for children that need them.

But the point I have been making over and over is that the diagnosis of the child is not the issue here. It's the lack of services to adequately support the child and their family.

I am not adequately supported by my LA with my DC. Not by a long shot. Don't think I'm over here doing Sound of Music frolicking in fields with my happy DC. We have had our battles with the authorities.

But again I cannot say that the autism is the issue here. The issue is ableism. The issue is lack of services. The issue is neurodiverse voices being silenced by neurotypical people who think they know better.

@Kaliorphic

Why do you need that acknowledged?

It's called compassion. Something you seem to have very little of.

It's not compassion. It's ableism.

@ForestNymph

Someone said they were sorry about my son once and I asked them what they were sorry for. They got very flustered. I used it as a moment to say actually we are proud autistics and we are only sorry that society doesn't see our value.

It broke my heart. My poor son, I'm just glad he didn't hear it or understand it.

we are only sorry that society doesn't see our value.

Gosh this conversation really does go right round in circles doesn't it. The lack of acknowledgement that people's experiences are really quite different doesn't seem to come into it at all.

I agree entirely with your post.

People probably think I don't have difficulties due to me being positive about autism but I've got scars from where my son bit me during severe meltdowns. But that isn't HIS fault, or due to him being autistic even - its due to him being excluded from school because they couldn't support him and they kept triggering his meltdowns, and then locked him in a room, meaning he was terrified.

The issue is society isn't just not designed for autistics, in some cases its actively designed to make things really hard for us.

Moved his setting and I haven't been bit for 9 months. Before it was a daily thing.

That was to @heydoggee

My quotes aren't working properly