To wonder why the f* people still think vaccines cause autism?

[coolitcathy]

Name changed for privacy reasons.

Stumbled across a Facebook group about "parents against vaccines" a few minutes ago which suggested, nay STATED, that vaccines cause autism and are essentially poison. I think the hysteria is potentially getting worse due to this Covid vaccination that's getting rolled out at the mo. Is anyone still infuriated or is the anger dying down now as we all get distracted by something else happening? Also why is autism seen as such a bad thing?

(If you're anti vax I'm open to you sharing your viewpoints but I haven't seen any information that makes me consider that outlook)

@ForestNymph

For the latter part - I sometimes as a child used to think "why am I apparently a gifted student yet things others find simple I find so hard" - now I didn't know I was autistic back then, so that didn't help, but something that helped me was reading about people who changed the world in some way, like Alan Turing or Rosa Parks, not necessarily autistic people but people who had overcome adversity or been "different". Idk if that's something he might be interested in?

Sorry if that's unwanted advice or seems patronising, you've probably tried loads of stuff, just thought I'd put it out there as someone who also had a shirty teenage time

I leave material for him to read and I have no doubt that he accesses the parts of things that he feels comfortable with.

He doesn't like talking about his autism, not because of anything negative we have said. We've been upbeat.

I hope his perceptions of himself will change and perhaps they will in time.

@cantdothisnow1

In reality of course that's how I think and certainly the outward message my son receives from me.

I don't dwell on the wishing it away part, there is no point. But if anyone asks a direct question as part of a discussion then I am not going to lie either.

My dad used to say he wished I was "normal". Which is ironic since, at 61, he's realised he's autistic too, but as a teenager I really resented that comment. He didn't know I was autistic either but he knew I was "weird". He used to say he didn't want me to be a different person, but he wished I had it easier, so a similar sentiment to whats been said here. It still hurt and at the time, really pissed me off.

So I'm glad you said you don't tell your son that. Ironically I think its indicative of my dad's own autism that he told me he felt that way.

I remember post 17 was a much nicer time for me than 16 and below. I hope he has a similar experience.

@Tinselandbaubauls

“You just don’t want to accept it” 😂

@ForestNymph - the fact that you can know how to use a computer, even know what a computer is. Open a web page, navigate to mumsnet and post on a thread like this goes to show you have absolute no idea of the kind of autism my some has or how it affects him.

I accept my son. He is the most important person in my whole life, probably more so than his siblings because he needs me more and he’s vulnerable. I’ve fought tooth and nail for him For over 20 years getting him the very best help and support I can. We’ve spent Tens of thousands in tribunals and appeals getting him the education he deserves. Don’t tell me I can’t accept who he is.

I said you don't want to accept you can't separate the person from the autism. Not that you don't accept your son is autistic.

Autism is as much a part of a person as anything else, for better or worse.

God words hurt don't they.

Especially if they come from a parent or a trusted person.

My mum used to have a way with words with me when I was growing up. I try my hardest not to inflict that kind of thing on my children.

@ForestNymph

I remember post 17 was a much nicer time for me than 16 and below. I hope he has a similar experience.

thank you.

@cantdothisnow1

God words hurt don't they.

Especially if they come from a parent or a trusted person.

My mum used to have a way with words with me when I was growing up. I try my hardest not to inflict that kind of thing on my children.

Yes. I get on really well with my dad but my god he is very blunt to the point of being outright offensive. I now know why, but as a child I remember thinking he just hated everyone. I try to be a bit more empathetic around my kids but I am pretty blunt myself so I don't know how good I am at it.

I think for all our kids, one advantage they have is they are diagnosed and so we know what we are dealing with and we can at least have a reason. For me I grew up not knowing why and just thought I was weird.

Knowing what the issue stems from is half the battle to helping

Discussions around autism always descend into functionality arguments with the NTs 'autismwarriormommas' shouting down the adult autistics with functionality top trumps claiming that our lives can't be that bad because we're continent and can string a sentence together. Nice.

All I will say is that autistics have a nine times higher suicide rate than the rest of the population.

I'm describing how autism works and how society discriminates against us

And again, your experience is not the same as everyone else's. You do not speak for all autistic people and their families.

*For me I grew up not knowing why and just thought I was weird.

Knowing what the issue stems from is half the battle to helping*

Me too. I was ignored when I tried to seek help at 11ish (didn't even diagnose me for anxiety and depression, which I was a textbook case of). It took things getting very bad a few years later for my parents to research potential causes and then a specific form of autism came up. I spoke to a counsellor and GP about it and they agreed that I probably have autism, but I'm barred from accessing support due to an incorrect assessment - I tried to go back and get a diagnosis again but the memo was I didn't score highly enough on the test for autism to be reassessed. So yeah, it's bad constantly doubting yourself even though you have various people related to mental health suggesting you have autism but you don't have a diagnosis.

I'm fortunate to still be able to acess PIP and counselling, and I still describe myself as autistic because I am, but it's a challenging situation to be in. (Sorry got a bit personal but good to get it off my chest!) I hope the MH & Disability support networks for young people improve so that more children don't have to go through all of the hassle and shame.

@coolitcathy

My family are convinced that the MMR jab causes autism after a family member supposedly was fine until they had the MMR jab and then developed autism

How does that even happen, funky? It's not like depression or a mood disorder where it can come in and out of your life, it's a permanent thing that you've grown up with. Maybe your family member just wanted to stop masking and thought taking away the "culpability" (I know horrendous) of having autism by blaming it on a vaccine would help their parents accept them better

Its called regressive autism.

I don't believe vaccinations cause asd its genetics.
Dh is on the spectrum and guess what he never had any vaccinations.
Both our kids have Asd too they were showing signs before their mmr jab.

@coolitcathy - it’s nit autism olympics. There is a HUGE difference in either end of the spectrum. It seems it ok for the poster to tell me I don’t accept things but not for me to point out that Her autism and the autism we deal with are two entirely different things.

I remember reading an article (this must have been almost 20 years ago) by a mum of a boy with autism and how her husband and father in law also had it - she realised when she watched them sitting interacting and doing the same types of repetitive tasks.

It was a bit of a revelation to the grandpa when he realised that the reason he did certain things or had certain difficulties was because of this - a bit of a lightbulb moment for him.

@ForestNymph Autism is as much a part of a person as anything else, for better or worse.. We’ll agree to disagree. If you believe that that’s fine but I don’t. My son has autism, it isn’t who he is, that’s what I believe.

it’s nit autism olympics. There is a HUGE difference in either end of the spectrum. It seems it ok for the poster to tell me I don’t accept things but not for me to point out that Her autism and the autism we deal with are two entirely different things.

No, I agree that there are different challenges to different people on the autism spectrum. I've attached a diagram though to demonstrate my point that it's not a linear spectrum, and there may be people who you consider "high functioning" who function less effectively in certain areas than people you consider "low functioning".

This is an interesting paper It’s about how the definition of the spectrum has become so broad that there is less difference now between autistic and non-autistic people.

“ The findings suggest that differences between individuals with autism and those without the diagnosis have decreased over time and that possible changes in the definition of autism from a narrowly defined and homogenous population toward an inclusive and heterogeneous population may reduce our capacity to build mechanistic models of the condition.”

@farawayplanet

Discussions around autism always descend into functionality arguments with the NTs 'autismwarriormommas' shouting down the adult autistics with functionality top trumps claiming that our lives can't be that bad because we're continent and can string a sentence together. Nice.

All I will say is that autistics have a nine times higher suicide rate than the rest of the population.

Well, that's not what I, for one, think at all. On the contrary, my experience has been that even non-intellectually impaired, "high-functioning " autistics can be very significantly disabled by their autism. Furthermore, their difficulties may only stem in part from their interaction with society. Difficulties in interacting with others are sometimes only a fraction of the overall difficulties, even when there is no ID. But some here seem to be refusing to accept that. (I'm looking at you @ForestNymph )

@coolitcathy
The trouble with that graph is that it shows them to have different amounts of autism though?

The trouble with that graph is that it shows them to have different amounts of autism though?

Sorry should have attached the more detailed sheet, my mistake. This is the idea that they are equally autistic but have strengths and weaknesses in different areas, like anyone else does.

I’m not sure why the link didn’t work. Here it is again:

JAMA Psychiatry

I have twin DSs. DTS2 has ASD and LDs (ASD not formally diagnosed until he was 17!). DTS1 is NT and well above average intellectually.

They both had the MMR in 2003 a few years after Wakefield’s paper came out. I remember having a lot of conversations about whether they should have it but decided that they would as DC1 had already had it (in 1998 before Wakefield’s paper came out) and because ASD had been around for longer than the MMR.

My niece on DH’s side was diagnosed at around 4 shortly after DS2. SIL is an anti vaxxer funnily enough! DH and I knew long before her diagnosis as it was so obvious to us having had the experience with DS2. She went batshit when we mentioned it but DN’s nursery also suggested an assessment. SIL genuinely believes she can ‘heal’ DN through diet and Fiji water .

I’m also pretty sure DH’s Dad is on the spectrum, although he’s from abroad , and even now ASD doesn’t exist there.

I used to think DTS2’s difficulties were due to him not getting enough blood supply and/or nutrition in the womb as he was visibly much skinnier/paler and lower birthweight than his brother despite being longer in length. He’s now 6ft 4 to his brother’s 5ft 9! It’s only since my niece that I think it probably is genetic.

@farawayplanet

Discussions around autism always descend into functionality arguments with the NTs 'autismwarriormommas' shouting down the adult autistics with functionality top trumps claiming that our lives can't be that bad because we're continent and can string a sentence together. Nice.

All I will say is that autistics have a nine times higher suicide rate than the rest of the population.

Interesting, because what I see is a lot of parents facing challenges that most can’t even imagine and being called derogatory names like “autism warrior moms” while their kids experiences are completely discounted or dismissed, blamed on learning disabilities or having ableist parents.

I don't resent NT parents of autistic kids. But I do think NT parents of autistic kids resent autism.

How many threads have I read on here where people state they are afraid of their children being autistic? Countless.

If autistic people were better supported by their local authorities and the NHS, and hell just society in general, then I guarantee people would be less afraid. The societal shift needed to support autistic people AND their families probably won't happen in my lifetime. I hope it happens in my child's.

I do think NT parents of autistic kids resent autism.
Yes, I think you're right in many cases. We love autistic people though.
Speaking for myself, it's hard to watch someone you love so much suffer (and they do) and not wish they had been spared the difficulties they face. I'm sorry if that offends anyone.