AIBU to tell my vegetarian boyfriend that I know he eats meat in secret

[LucyRivers167]

My DP and I have been together four years, both vegetarian. I don't care what he eats and have never been one of those judgy and pushy vegetarians.

However I have now found by accident (when putting the washing machine on) two receipts for McDonald's in his pockets for chicken burgers and a big Mac. I know he goes to McDonald's but he always said it was just for chips. I looked at the dates on the receipts, it's when I'm out or none the wiser. He has lied directly to my face essentially because one of the receipts was from when I saw a friend. I remember coming back and asking what he had done with his day - he said didn't leave the house and ate a cheese sandwich.

He even said the other day 'if I was going to eat meat, it would at least be the good stuff like steak not fast food."

I don't care what he eats, I really don't. But he seems to think I'll judge him.

I am just surprised at how good he can tell little lies though. There are a couple other more important things I know he has lied about too (stuff to do with his ex, what his job is/was) and my trust for him had already been damaged. It may seem stupid but the McDonald's thing is now more important than it should be

He has low self esteem and everything he has lied about in the past I think are things he's embarrassed about. I don't know whether to tell him I know about the Big Mac or just leave it alone as it is just a silly little thing and I think he uses food to de-stress.

He's a lovely man and partner. So very kind. But I'm worried about his honesty. He has chronic depression and anxiety too, and the pandemic has been very hard for him. I can imagine eating a sneaky McDonalds is a way of getting some pleasure.

From what you've said about him, I don't think it's about 'getting pleasure', I think it's about 'acting out badness'. Deliberately doing a 'bad' thing, in order to create a real world expression of his inner low self-esteem. Like a binge-eater or bulimic stuffing themselves.

@sillysmiles

Really good point, I have been known to overreact on occasion. Or at least he says I do. I am insecure myself too and take things to heart, but I am a strong and reasonable person. Albeit a confused person now.

This is a really good short essay / book on lying

All lies are not equal

archive.org/stream/pdfy-x4ByD3mMjIdTMC0H/Sam%20Harris%20Lying%20%281%29_djvu.txt

I don’t think anyone said that though hamstersarse

And if someone says they are vegetarian and has a burger then I would say it is a bit more than a little lie.

The OP has said she doesn’t mind what he eats and yet still he lied. I’d have a problem with that.

The IP

Ooh I dunno. If he's a judgy vegetarian then tell him. If he's not then leave it. It doesn't really affect you like drinking or gambling. I've recently had some meat, pregnant, struggling, only DH knows. I'm not proud of it, sure he's not. Maybe try and broach the subject but it's tough. How often is it?

Ha ha, sounds like Pam from Gavin and Stacey

@lottiegarbanzo yes I think that may be the case. I've known him to drink to oblivion when he's stressed, or eat an entire pizza. He does always call himself greedy and a terrible person and he has a bit of a funny relationship with food. He feels immense guilt about overeating sometimes. We are open about that as I used to have anorexia so he is at least able to tell me those thoughts without fear of being judged.

@Nottherealslimshady I have only found two receipts, they were 2 weeks apart!

This particular lie is really not massive. Moment of weakness? Feels shame that he has professed to be an ethical vegetarian so can't come clean?

No. You're missing the point. He is a person who lies as a matter of course. Not about whether someone looks nice in that dress,but about who he is. A vegetarian who once worked as X, or a meat eater who didn't. Fundamental lies which try and paint a false picture of who he is.

It's a massive red flag, Walter Mitty syndrome. The lies don't need to be massive, it's the way the brain works that matters. He lives by pretence. People marry people like this then discover that they simply arent' who they pretend to be.

OP, in his head he's vegetarian and he worked at X, because he just thinks he should be, and that's how his brain works. The truth is an elastic concept. It will be elastic when it comes to finances, fidelity, everything.

Run a mile.

So, while I'm sure there is some pleasure in it for him, I think part of the point of doing it is to manifest his self-disgust and/or sense of his life being out of his own control. Creating the guilt involved in doing this in secret is an essential part of that.

If you burst that bubble of secrecy and say that it's just two burgers, nothing really to feel guilty about, it's what we do most of the time that counts, that might help him relax about whatever feelings of imperfection and inadequacy he's struggling with inside.

I think if you make a big issue about the lying, that will result in more secrecy and lying, because it will add to his self-loathing and create a new pressure - which he will seek to relieve through this sort of binge / (emotional) purge, behaviour.

So I'd try to release the pressure by saying 'no big deal but why not just tell me if you want to eat meat now and then?'.

@ YoniAndGuy It upsets me to even write this, but you might be right. I feel so awful and torn. I will look up walter mitty syndrome.

@SheldonesqueIsUnwell

I don’t think anyone said that though hamstersarse

And if someone says they are vegetarian and has a burger then I would say it is a bit more than a little lie.

The OP has said she doesn’t mind what he eats and yet still he lied. I’d have a problem with that.

The IP

It's a communication problem between them more than a lying problem I'd say

But everyone entitled to their own boundaries on lying. I would be wondering why we couldn't communicate well about some basic things - what was it that stopped him being truthful? I don't think you can always put that on one person - I know I lie more in the company of different people. Lying ime isn't just a straight across the board consistent thing.

Just my view.

I'd stick the receipts on the fridge and see what he says

@lottiegarbanzo good way of looking at it. If I tell him I know I will try to approach it as you have said. I want to believe this is his way of dealing with things. I don't want to believe he is a liar who doesn't respect me, and lies about more important things.

Sorry I come across as muddled, just trying to acknowledge all your differing viewpoints.

@Frazzled2207

The lies would bother me. My husband is vegetarian, but we both know he will eat the DS's leftover chicken/sausage/etc if it's otherwise going in the bin. He's never felt the need to lie about it. If he'd had a moment and gone out and bought a big mac in a moment of weakness I'd expect him to fess up and I'd be supportive (I'm not veggie but am quite pro-veggie generally). If I found out that he'd been eating meat behind my back I'd be really shocked.

youneed to have a word with him, sorry but you're not a vegetarian on any level, don't kid yourself. just be open and honest about eatting meat if you want to just do it.

It would be a dealbreaker for me.

Oh pull the other one. Nobody ends a relationship over a secret Big Mac. Not even the Mumsnet Moralisers who've never told a lie in their life (also a lie.)

OP, I would imagine that you're slightly more militant over the veggie issue than you think, and he's worried about dissapointing you or you kicking off about it.

@ScalpHelp

He sounds like a psychopath because of the compulsive lying. I couldn’t be with someone like that.

A psychopath??? Way, way over the top.

In any case, should you actually meana pathological liar, they will compulsively lie for no reason and where there is no need to, not to cover something up or hide things from their partner.

@YoniAndGuy

This particular lie is really not massive. Moment of weakness? Feels shame that he has professed to be an ethical vegetarian so can't come clean?

No. You're missing the point. He is a person who lies as a matter of course. Not about whether someone looks nice in that dress,but about who he is. A vegetarian who once worked as X, or a meat eater who didn't. Fundamental lies which try and paint a false picture of who he is.

It's a massive red flag, Walter Mitty syndrome. The lies don't need to be massive, it's the way the brain works that matters. He lives by pretence. People marry people like this then discover that they simply arent' who they pretend to be.

OP, in his head he's vegetarian and he worked at X, because he just thinks he should be, and that's how his brain works. The truth is an elastic concept. It will be elastic when it comes to finances, fidelity, everything.

Run a mile.

I'm sorry but that is totally OTT

The OP has said they have a generally good relationship I think? Why is he suddenly Walter Mitty?

Have you never lied @YoniAndGuy? I would hope that someone in your life didn't judge you so harshly for a perfectly natural human flaw.

I am all for truth telling, I have been working on it for years. And that sounds like I am a massive huge liar, but it is harder than you think to speak the truth all the time and often ends up with you being in a lot of trouble too.

@namechangetheworld Perhaps I am more militant than I think, I will think about that.

I don't think he is a psychopath and this isn't a dealbreaker on its own - the dealbreaker would be a pattern of lying that I am beginning to click onto. How many more lies does he tell etc.

@warmandtoasty2day
we both know he's not strict, he will just pick the meat parts out of some meals for example which I know strict veggies would never do.

Anyway that's beyond the point of this thread - The point I was making is that I know he has moments of weakness but would never feel the need to lie.

I left a relationship with someone who told 'little lies'. The fact that he's so lovely and sweet doesn't necessarily work in his favour here. The truth can be uncomfortable and it's good to have it out in the open. If all you ever see is sweetness and light, chances are, some of it isn't real.

People pleasers are great if you want a superficial relationship. But if you want someone you can have a deep relationship with, he's not your man.

He's crossing your boundaries already, otherwise you wouldn't be posting here. You need to decide what you're comfortable with, and tell him. If he persists in pushing your boundaries, you're not compatible.

Bear in mind that now you have this knowledge, if you don't speak to him about it, you are guilty of dishonesty too. Don't become a 'people-pleasing' relationship, where neither of you speaks the truth for fear of rocking the boat.

As this isn't the only lie he has told then I would be worried about why he does that. Although you did say that the previous lies were about more important things it still paints a bigger picture doesn't it - that he lies and finds it easy to do so.

I don't eat meat and it is quite a large part of who I am I suppose and if my partner found out I'd been eating a sneaky beef burger he would be shocked and then question my integrity overall I think.

Was he already supposedly vegetarian when you met him or has he had a go to try and support or even impress you and maybe doesn't want to cause disappointment? Still weird to lie about it even if this is the case imo as it doesn't sound like you're fussed about his food choices either way.

Some of the reactions on here are ridiculous to the extreme. You say he’s a lovely man - lying about eating a burger is hardly worth ending a relationship. Yes, he’s lied about something, probably because he’s embarrassed, but so what? Nobody died (part from the cow). If it bothers you, speak to him and ask him why he couldn’t be honest. If he has low self esteem, he probably doesn’t want to admit that he’s failing at something that is/was important to him and/or you.
You sound really nice OP, and from your description, so does he. A white lie does not make him a bad person or doom your relationship.

Good. It's worth giving him a chance to talk about it without pressure.

I think we can set ourselves up for failure sometimes, by trying to commit to things, or achieve things that we want but we're not quite up to. Sometimes we do that by making declarations e.g. I'm a vegetarian, or I'm on a diet (I think we've all met plenty of would-be-dieters who use public declaration as a sort of affirmation, to help motivate themselves to become who they want to be).

Clinging to the public persona can be a way of keeping the dream of success alive. If we mostly get it right and only rarely eat the wrong thing, it can work.

The problem is when we then loathe ourselves for failing and this leads to a self-perpetuating cycle of failure and loathing.

So in that case, it's not a case of Walter Mitty 'believing his own daydreams' to the point of total unreliability. He knows he's lying.

Rather it's someone who is too rigid in his expectations of himself, or perhaps his thinking generally and lacks the language, experience or conceptual framework to do a 'good enough' job, do his best, have a go and see where it gets him etc.

Is he quite a black and white thinker? A perfectionist?

My friend could smell her bf's breath and know he'd been sneaking a burger while out shopping but he swore blind he'd not.
She didn't leave him over that but it was the tip of a big iceberg as it turned out.

@LopsidedWombat we online dated for a bit and I remember him saying he was vegetarian, and had been for 8 years. I know he slipped up during that time and he admitted as such - I also saw a picture on FB of him with his ex, both eating what was certainly meat. But I have also slipped up and ate meat and he knows all about the times I've done it because I've admitted to it.

@Eckhart thanks for your insight. You're right, I would be lying by not telling him I know now I suppose. I thought we communicated well but actually, I am not sure we do. Some of that will be my fault too of course. I am scared of rocking the boat, I hate conflict. But I have rocked the boat so to speak quite a few times in the last 9 months over various things - lockdown and being stuck together at home all the time has caused some friction after all.