Do you intervene if you see bad parenting

[lboogy]

I know this is controversial and I'm prepared to be told to mind my own business but here goes....

It's about 7-8 degrees out today and it's raining. Was walking and saw two women, one possibly with a child but I can't be sure and another pushing one child in a pushchair and a 4-6 year old walking behind her in a tutu and a vest. Child was crying walking bare feet and holding plastic gel sandals.

Mum walked up to a block of flats while women number 1 held the door open for her. I almost walked away and said nothing but then thought let me help this child with her shoes. So I asked the child if she wants me to help with her shoes in full sight of mum. Child said no, mum said nothing. I asked if it was her child and she said yes. Women no 1 shouted at me to f- off. I said it's quite unusual to see a child with no shoes on so I wanted to help you. I know she's probably given you hell. Friend mumbled something and I walked away at that point because it was clear things would escalate.

So it got me thinking. I know we live in a society of 'mind your own business' but this was too bad a scenario for me to ignore. The child was never dressed for the weather even if she had taken off her coat. A tutu and a vest and sandals in winter .. just odd to me. Now my toddler has kicked off boots and removed coats and shoes when upset so it's not like I couldn't imagine how the child came to be undressed. But I wonder now if I should have kept walking or does the reaction of strangers help parents in high stress situations like I'd imagine took place to get the child to such a state of undress.

So was iBU to offer help?

I have only ever done it once. I was walking my dog in the park and a women came in with her child - aged about two or three. The little girl had wet herself and the mother just went off at her. Shouting and shouting, pulling her roughly out of her buggy and asking over and over "WHY?! WHY?! why didn't you tell me?" "You naughty, naughty girl". She was beside herself. I've been there I know how frustrating toilet training is and how desperate it makes you feel when they have an accident and you're not prepared so I didn't say anything for a few minutes. It just went on and on though and the women seemed to be working herself up into a total frenzy. I went over to her and said "Is this your child?" (Lots of nannies at out park so couldn't be sure) and when she said yes I told her very calmly to "stop it right now, stop shouting at her like that. You've gone far enough, it's doing no good but to frighten and shame her, take her home and get her changed, enough is enough". She looked shocked and just went very quiet. I honestly think she needed someone to intervene, she had lost herself in rage and stress. She didn't shout back or get angry, just took some deep breaths and left the park quickly with her daughter.

It was very upsetting and I still think of them. I hope if I was doing that publicly with my child someone would step in and I hope it made her think twice in the future when she felt herself losing it.

@lboogy I know you probably had good intentions but the child may have additional needs. My son has high functioning autism and even now at this tome of year, I struggle to get him to wear a coat. He just doesn't feel the cold and hates to feel restricted.
Mum could have also had a morning of tantrums and the child refused to get dressed properly so she gave up in the end. Mum may have had proper clothes in her bag. We just never know in these situations.
I can completely understand why you said something but I can also understand why they may have sworn at you if they've had the day from hell. Sounds like they were about home so hopefully the little one would have warmed up quite quickly after you saw them.

I wouldn’t have intervened with your shoe example, OP. People do love to interfere and I know how it feels to be on the receiving end (not good!). DS1 had a perma-cold from the age of 1-2, always streaming snot. We were crossing the road and in the middle of it a lady says to me “you need to wipe that child’s nose!” - right I’ll stop and do it in the middle of the road shall I?? She wasn’t to know that his poor nose was red raw from all the wiping and I often just put Vaseline around it and let him snot a bit otherwise he was permanently being fussed over which he hated.

Point being: you just don’t know what’s gone on before with the child’s shoes. Perhaps the mum had picked out some lovely winter boots for her to wear, child refuses and wants to wear sandals - “fine wear the sandals but I’m not helping you with them” says mum thinking that will at least show the child she isn’t going to be a pushover, meanwhile perhaps packing the winter boots under the buggy for when child capitulates. Child is not going to freeze on a short walk in 7-8 degrees, I would have let it go personally.

I think if a child of about five years is being naughty and removes her shoes when it’s raining, it’s their own fault if they get cold. I don’t think you should ‘intervene’ in this sort of situation, no. It’s possible you have identified ‘bad parenting’, but that isn’t really your judgement to make. Report to SS if you have a concern in the future, unless someone needs immediate protective help.

I've been the other mum, during a trip to Legoland as a treat for then 9yo ds for missing out on his school residential. 3yo dd had been an absolute little shite from the minute she'd woken up. I had used every ounce of my patience that morning on the 2 hour journey. I'd suggested she wear the comfy shoes as there would be a lot of walking. She refused and wore her other shoes. So I sneaked her comfy ones into the car. Got there, she refused to leave the car in her non comfy shoes, so I produced the comfy ones for her. She faffed around, complained about her socks feeling wrong and then stopped and took her comfy shoes off on the walk to the park entrance. By that stage I'd totally had enough so told her she could walk around barefoot for all I cared. Cue us ignoring her as she tantrummed, screamed and spat her way to the park entrance. We got looks similar to the one I'm sure you gave the woman with the inappropriately dressed girl. Our dc are both very loved, very well cared for children and we have never laid a finger on either of them. They have clothes, and shoes bought regularly for them, they have plenty of healthy food in their bellies. They want for nothing.

But dd, who is defiant and stubborn in the extreme, has pushed us to the end of our tether in her 4 years as we've grappled with searching for ways to deal with her shifting the goalposts, repeatedly.

Am I proud of how I reacted? No, of course I'm not. I felt like a shit parent. I should have reacted better, or differently. I just wanted to give ds a lovely day to make up for the shit year he's had.

So this is a long way of me saying that you never know what has gone before to push a parent over the edge. I would intervene if I saw a parent hitting their child, or withholding food/ water while the rest of the family ate, but in the situation you describe, probably not.

Only once, crossing a road and a family crossing over the other way. There was a teen girl, maybe 13-15 and a man dragging her roughly by the arm. I said 'you shouldn't be dragging her like that' and he said 'I'm her father', I said I don't care who you are you shouldn't be dragging her'.

I do think it was father/wife/daughter family but I haven't forgotten how he felt he could do what he liked because he was her father. She wasn't a little child about to put herself in danger in any way. Maybe she had additional needs or maybe not. I don't know obviously.

No. You NEVER intervene. That’s how you end up getting assaulted. You film them and report to the authorities.

Absolutely not, no. You don't get to determine bad parenting i'm afraid. If you witness abuse then report it if you can, but you can't possibly see a tiny snapshot like this and decide that, in your opinion, this is "bad parenting". I am not surprised you were told to fuck off!

I have intervened very occasionally. Certainly not because a child is having a strop and refusing to wear shoes though. Never in judgement either.
If a group of children were fighting on a train or playing chicken on a level crossing I'd step in and stop them.
Child on their own crying or seemingly lost, I'd check a parent was close by.
Once I stopped a mother who'd lost it with her toddler and baby in a shopping centre. Just took her for a cup of tea and cake for the little one. She didn't need judgement or telling off, she needed a firm steer away from the audience and a chance to calm down.

Yes people will take offence very quickly at any sort of intervention although i understand why you did it. We shouldn't ignore things like this but maybe next time note the child and mothers description plus the block of flats or flat they live in and let social services know. Maybe something and maybe nothing but i would let them decide

does the reaction of strangers help parents in high stress situations

No, of course not.

It’s hard isn’t it? I once stopped and watched as a mum yanked her daughter out of the car (young girl maybe 5) flung her towards a wall and shouted at her. I stopped and spoke directly to the woman - ‘are you alright?’ When what I really wanted to do was ask the little girl that. But the eye contact and the direct question worked in the moment to achieve what I wanted which was for her to stop shouting and threatening the child. I then followed unobtrusively at a bit of a distance for a while to check she wasn’t going to hurt her.

You shouldn’t have intervened in that situation. I would have been pissed off and/or embarrassed if you had done that to me.
As a parent you should know that sometimes children throw strops and do random things like refuse to wear shoes.

In the situation you describe, you didn't really want to "help" though did you, you wanted to judge. Sure, in a situation where the parent appears to require assistance you might offer, but not in a relatively calm scenario with no shouting, smacking, abuse etc

No way would I intervene.

As a parent you should know that sometimes children throw strops and do random things like refuse to wear shoes.

From the OP it sounds as if you have one toddler, is that right?

Honestly, getting pfb to 2 or 3 years isn’t the doctorate in parenting some seem to think. Other people have other experiences. Other DC are different from yours. You can’t judge.

Not generally unless the child is in danger but I have been tempted to once.

It was an acquaintance who seemed to have fallen into a very negative cycle of reproaching her 3 year old for bad behaviour. The boy pushed my DS slightly and said he didn't like him (the sort of thing I'd just pass over with a breezy, "Well, that's a shame since we like you, but we don't push each other"). The mum went absolutely nuts at her son, shaking him, shouting in his face and telling the little boy he wouldn't have any friends and no one would want to play with him. This wasn't an isolated incident. I felt so bad for him but also her since she was clearly stressed and at the end of her tether. Seeing this little boy getting more and more upset and badly behaved at the withdrawal of affection really upset me. I felt like telling her to give her son a big hug, go home and cuddle up with him in front of the TV with a cup of tea, but didn't think it was my place to do so, especially since I didn't really know the background.

I helped a primary age child struggling to pick up her bag while trying to untangle her bag from it while her mum screamed at her to hurry up. She was in a younger year to my child and she still says hello to me now even though this was years ago and they are both at big school now. Lovely girl.

Should have added I didn't say anything to the mum but she was way in front shouting.

God I should proof read. Her BIKE

Yes I have. A man was pushing a child on a swing seat thing that's meant for older kids anyway. It goes really high. The boy was around 4 and was losing his grip and crying help me, help me. He was utterly terrified. The man was laughing hysterically and shouting "oh grow some balls will you"

I walked over to the swing, caught hold of it and stopped it. The man tried to laugh it off but as he looked around every adult there just stared at him in disgust. I hope he thinks twice next time, don't know if he will but I couldn't leave that child screaming for help.

I wouldn't. Abusive then i would possibly try and catch parents eye and if they look like they just need help I would but if they look abusive abusive then I would call the police.

Scenario like you describe no. Chances are she was told to put her shoes on a dozen times and then told to put them on or go barefoot. Common scenario in my house. Its a snapshot, not necessarily bad parenting

And I couldn't care less if "that's how you get assaulted". He was assaulting his child, if he'd assaulted me I'd have dealt with it but that little boy didn't have the means to deal with it without someone intervening

I was at soft play eons ago and 2 young mums were letting their tiny toddlers play at the bottom of the helter skelter 🙄. The slightly older children whizzing down had no way of stopping. I couldn’t stop myself grabbing one out of the way as older child whizzed down massive slide as gormless mum looked on. Just... no words.

I think you were right to intervene. We live in communities where people are scared to get punched if they stand up to bullies. She might have been rude to you, and would probably have given you a good slagging off later, but I bet it made her think...