Do you intervene if you see bad parenting

[lboogy]

I know this is controversial and I'm prepared to be told to mind my own business but here goes....

It's about 7-8 degrees out today and it's raining. Was walking and saw two women, one possibly with a child but I can't be sure and another pushing one child in a pushchair and a 4-6 year old walking behind her in a tutu and a vest. Child was crying walking bare feet and holding plastic gel sandals.

Mum walked up to a block of flats while women number 1 held the door open for her. I almost walked away and said nothing but then thought let me help this child with her shoes. So I asked the child if she wants me to help with her shoes in full sight of mum. Child said no, mum said nothing. I asked if it was her child and she said yes. Women no 1 shouted at me to f- off. I said it's quite unusual to see a child with no shoes on so I wanted to help you. I know she's probably given you hell. Friend mumbled something and I walked away at that point because it was clear things would escalate.

So it got me thinking. I know we live in a society of 'mind your own business' but this was too bad a scenario for me to ignore. The child was never dressed for the weather even if she had taken off her coat. A tutu and a vest and sandals in winter .. just odd to me. Now my toddler has kicked off boots and removed coats and shoes when upset so it's not like I couldn't imagine how the child came to be undressed. But I wonder now if I should have kept walking or does the reaction of strangers help parents in high stress situations like I'd imagine took place to get the child to such a state of undress.

So was iBU to offer help?

Our son is the same. I would send a coat/jumper in, up to the school to have the battle there. Never feel judged though, by staff, other parents possibly. I work on natural consequences - he wears shorts in winter he gets cold (I don't think he feels it), no coat in the rain he gets wet.
He went to comp this Yr and we were dreading the strict uniform - no shorts obviously but actually he's done OK x

I intervened when a young mum was teaching her toddler to sit down on an escalator. I couldn't believe what I was seeing - the child could have lost a finger or way worse.

Another time I wished I had intervened was when I saw a man absolutely thrashing his children out side a supermarket. I wish I'd stepped in. They looked terrified. I regret not doing anything.

I have never intervened with anyone else's parenting and I can't imagine I ever would. I tend to keep myself to myself and just try to do my best for my family. I certainly wouldn't have done anything in the example in the OP. Probably the worst I see around here is verbal abuse, but I know that if they are behaving that way in public, then they will already be on the radar of schools and other agencies.

I did years ago at our local zoo. A little boy had slipped on some mud, then over a low fence and landed face first.

All he got off his parents was a barrage of abuse, very well spoken abuse as they were but abuse none the less so eventually I piped up with ' oh for goodness sake he didn't do it on purpose ' do they turned on me. Well the mother did.......the dad just looked down his nose.

I can still see his little face as he tried to stop himself crying and get the mud off himself. Poor sod must have been in a lot of pain due to the way he landed too......it was obvious he was used to that sort of treatment.

Some people really shouldn't have kids.

I try not to judge other mums. I've offered fellow mums an "It's okay, we've all been there" I've pushed a child on a swing who was screaming at mum to be pushed as she was sorting out baby, picked up dummies, bottles, toy cars thrown from trolleys and prams, kicked balls back, tied laces. I think it's so important that we support eachother, we all know how tough it gets at times and I have been that mother with two under threes, sat on the floor in Peacocks, holding one in each arm whilst they completely lost their shit, I remember being sat there on the ground at the point of tears, feeling everybody's eyes on me and the weight of their judgement, wondering how on earth I was going to manage to carry them both, kicking and screaming, back to the car by myself. I really would have appreciated a kind word and a little understanding that day, so thats what I try to remember when I see a mum at the end of her tether.

This is interesting, I was watching a vlog about Japan and the whole community takes charge of disciplining children and they have a very low crime rate and everyone is lovely and polite.

Western countries people tend to get very defensive, personally if my ds was being naughty or if I did something wrong I wouldn't mind someone telling me or him off but if they went over the top screaming and shouting then I'd have something to say - I know you didn't op, this is just from my perspective.

It’s a tough call but unless they were in danger or the parent was going hysterical with them, then probably not no.

The likelihood is they’ll be at nursery or school and if there are any concerns then they’ll probably be known to SS.

People have different parenting styles and don’t agree necessarily with each other.

Normally I don’t but had to the other day.
Mum, dad, and two very young girls in the local playground. I saw them around before. One girl is maybe 4 and another 2.
Mum and dad left them to chat with some friends and have a coffee on the other side of the playground and couldn’t see them. The 2-year-old fell over and couldn’t get up/got tangled up and the parents couldn’t hear. I helped the poor child and told the parents. Then 10 minutes later the same child fell from a rather high climbing frame on her back screaming in pain and those two idiots were chatting to their friends unaware. I lifted the poor girl and just shouted at them their child fell and maybe they should be focusing on her. Complete idiots. I feel sorry for that little girl. No one else wanted to interfere and she was screaming in pain lying on the dirty ground. Why leave a 2 year old unsupervised on a large playground?!

"I said it's quite unusual to see a child with no shoes on"

Really? My son has spent his whole life refusing to put his shoes back on.

Though I do think it was weird that she was so underclothes. And the Fuck off wasn't pleasant.

I’d intervene if it looked like a child was in danger, but I don’t think I’ve ever had to. I wouldn’t bother in a situation where they weren’t appropriately dressed as I also have two hot children who are often out in shorts in winter.
We live in Aus but are often in the U.K. in winter and I remember one year they were wading in a stream in boots and were filthy and muddy (normal for them) and we had a number of people say things like “won’t they get cold?” and I was like “well yes but they wouldn’t be doing it if they didn’t like it!”. In Australia you wouldn’t get comments like this, you might get a “that looks like fun” but people seem way more precious about children getting cold in the U.K. (we do always have a change of clothes in the car!).
When mine were about 6 months and 2, the baby was screaming, the toddler tantruming in the car park and I was clearly approaching the end of my tether and a nice lady said “can I hold your lovely baby while you get the other one sorted” and chatted in a friendly way to me about this being a hard stage and things and although I cried at her, it did make me feel so much better as she was just nice and friendly about it.

Not sure how what you did could ever be seen to be helpful as it Sounds like she was nearly home anyway, so putting shoes on wasn’t going to help.
And you didn’t report it, so you didn’t think it was a serious neglect issue.

You also didn’t know all the info.

Also if a stranger came up and spoke to my child and wanted to touch them in any way no matter how innocently, I would also tell them to F off.

Yes I have

A women grabbed her son by his collar and screamed in his face can’t remember exactly what it was but it was a threat to hit him. He was about 9

I had to say something everyone else turned away. As she got off the train she spat at me

He older child looked embarrassed while her sister (think it was her sister) made some sort of threat towards me. I wasn’t scared just felt terribly sad. A fuss was made over me once they got off 🙄

At times strangers have to intervene

Seriously?! That is a really cringey story OP.

I thought this thread was going to be about witnessing a parent hitting their child or something equally serious. Obviously in serious cases like that it would be understandable that you intervened.

If I was the other parent in your story, I wouldn't have told you to fuck off, because I don't swear in front of my children, but I would have very firmly told you to go away and mind your own business. And I probably would have quietly muttered "fuck off" under my breath, so the kids couldn't hear.

My husband comes from a very interfering culture. It drives me nuts when we go outside in eg 10C weather and people tell us we shouldn't even have the baby outside. Unless it was something very dangerous or a repeated pattern, I wouldn't intervene.

Years ago before I had my own kids, I witnessed a young mum full on slap her toddler across the face in a rage on a bus. The bus driver pulled over and got the police.

@Popskipiekin

I wouldn’t have intervened with your shoe example, OP. People do love to interfere and I know how it feels to be on the receiving end (not good!). DS1 had a perma-cold from the age of 1-2, always streaming snot. We were crossing the road and in the middle of it a lady says to me “you need to wipe that child’s nose!” - right I’ll stop and do it in the middle of the road shall I?? She wasn’t to know that his poor nose was red raw from all the wiping and I often just put Vaseline around it and let him snot a bit otherwise he was permanently being fussed over which he hated.

Point being: you just don’t know what’s gone on before with the child’s shoes. Perhaps the mum had picked out some lovely winter boots for her to wear, child refuses and wants to wear sandals - “fine wear the sandals but I’m not helping you with them” says mum thinking that will at least show the child she isn’t going to be a pushover, meanwhile perhaps packing the winter boots under the buggy for when child capitulates. Child is not going to freeze on a short walk in 7-8 degrees, I would have let it go personally.

👍

It's a tough one. I remember the James Bulger murder and many people recall seeing the boys with a crying toddler and none intervened. Would have been a very different outcome if they had. But how do you know what's dangerous and bad parenting and what's just a snap shot into someone's perfectly normal life?

@Batmanandbobbin

Urgh, my DS hates wearing trousers and jumpers. I mean HATES them. Yesterday it was chucking it down and we went out and he was wearing shorts and kept taking his coat off and I was battling to get it on him!! At school the teachers won’t let him leave until he puts his coat on he walks out and takes it off and I always get the ‘bad parent’ luck he’s 5. I know I’m constantly being judged but he’s always been this way. He has refused to walk, sat on the wet floor, screamed like he’s in pain if I try to put it on I gave up after about 3 weeks and take the judgement now

My youngest is exactly the same, hates jumpers, coats, trousers, cuts the tags out of them all, has to have his socks lined up properly.

He has just newly been diagnosed with Sensory Processing Disorder, always battle every day with what he wants to wear.

Your example is just bizarre OP - if they were on their way back inside just what would have been gained by you interfering and getting the child to put their shoes back on? No wonder you were told to fuck off.

Some of the other examples are shocking and posters should remember that intervening once and patting yourselves on the back in the case of outright abuse does absolutely fuck all to stop the abuse and could actually make the parent behave even worse towards the child for “embarrassing them in public” or similar.

@Bk21

I saw a baby who looked about 4 on a bike cycling on the pavement. He was at the lights of a busy junction. I quickly went to the child as there was a suspicious man hovering over him too. I asked the child were his mum was he didn't say a word. I saw his mum come slowly down the road without a care in the world. I informed her that her child was about to cross a busy road and a man was hovering around. I told her it's important to be mindful of people on the road and that it was easy for someone to take the child if they wanted to. She didn't seem bothered and walked off. I'm not sure if she understood English but I am still worrying about that child

A 4 year old isn't a baby or a toddler. The child could have been taught to stop and wait at roads and lights like mine was.

I would not have intervened. Sounds like the child was being naughty and refusing to wear proper clothes.
In fact what i hate most about parenting is this judgy intergering from others..
It does take a villiage but in that instance...no.

The only time I would properly intervene is if a child was in danger or being abused outright

I saw something a few evenings ago and wondered if I should intervene...

A boy of about 6 was rolling around the floor with a toy. He seemed quite over stimulated and was ignoring his mother. She looked like she was at the end of her tether. She just snapped and started shouting at him very loudly and aggressively. She grabbed him and threw him on top of all the shopping and started marching off, he was screaming and she was shouting.

I’m not sure what I could have done to improve the situation but I feel like I shouldn’t have just walked away.

*should have mentioned she had a trolley full of shopping and was in the middle of a shopping centre.

I did once. Was out for lunch in Angel. Saw a mum with her daughter (age late teens I reckon) and assume grand daughter (2/3 year old in pram). The mum was screaming at the daughter, pushing and shoving her, slapped her across the face. The little girl was hysterical. The daughter was entirely passive.

I stopped, and spoke to the daughter not the mum. Told her what was happening wasn't right, that no one had the right to lay a hand on her, and that the little girl should never see this. Told her to call ss.

The mum went mental at me. I called the cops but by the time they arrived they were long gone. I just thought if she was happy doing that in public on a busy street in Zone 1 what was going on behind closed doors?

Noone else stopped or even batted an eyelid and I was 7 months pregnant. I wonder about those kids. Would have been about 5 years ago.