Do you intervene if you see bad parenting

[lboogy]

I know this is controversial and I'm prepared to be told to mind my own business but here goes....

It's about 7-8 degrees out today and it's raining. Was walking and saw two women, one possibly with a child but I can't be sure and another pushing one child in a pushchair and a 4-6 year old walking behind her in a tutu and a vest. Child was crying walking bare feet and holding plastic gel sandals.

Mum walked up to a block of flats while women number 1 held the door open for her. I almost walked away and said nothing but then thought let me help this child with her shoes. So I asked the child if she wants me to help with her shoes in full sight of mum. Child said no, mum said nothing. I asked if it was her child and she said yes. Women no 1 shouted at me to f- off. I said it's quite unusual to see a child with no shoes on so I wanted to help you. I know she's probably given you hell. Friend mumbled something and I walked away at that point because it was clear things would escalate.

So it got me thinking. I know we live in a society of 'mind your own business' but this was too bad a scenario for me to ignore. The child was never dressed for the weather even if she had taken off her coat. A tutu and a vest and sandals in winter .. just odd to me. Now my toddler has kicked off boots and removed coats and shoes when upset so it's not like I couldn't imagine how the child came to be undressed. But I wonder now if I should have kept walking or does the reaction of strangers help parents in high stress situations like I'd imagine took place to get the child to such a state of undress.

So was iBU to offer help?

Unless the child is at immediate risk of harm you shouldn't be interfering. It wasn't that bad and could have happened for many legitimate reasons.

It reminds me of a trip to the supermarket where then-3yo DD2 had insisted on walking round. I had set out my expectations before we went in, that she must stay next to me and not touch anything and if she couldn't do that she would have to go in the trolley. Well, first she kept picking stuff up, then decided to leg it off down the shop. When I caught up with her, she hit me. I scooped her up and put her in the trolley seat with the belt on and she proceeded to scream blue murder to the till ("I WANT TO GET OOOOOOOUUUUUUT!"). I was doing my best - ignoring her screaming protestations, attempting to distract her with various things I needed her 'help' with and staying really calm outwardly despite wanting the ground to swallow me up. Some snooty busybody in front of me in the queue felt the need to intervene and tell me how awful I was and that I needed to let her out. It took every ounce of restraint not to tell her to fuck right off. I didn't shout or swear at her but did tear a shred off her in that mega calm quiet voice that happens when you when you are past angry. The whole thing left me shaking and upset me for days. I also suspect she is the kind of person who would complain about "the youth" having "no respect these days" due to poor discipline and permissive parenting 🙄
DD1 was also one of the coat/jumper etc refusers as a toddler. I would always have them with me to offer when she was finally cold enough to catch on it was a good idea to wear them. A bit of cold and discomfort won't hurt them, and it's a good practical life lesson. Sometimes they need to learn from experience. I would not have been impressed with your interference either OP.

When my daughter was 4 we stood in playground on a summer's day waiting for her brother. It was raining and she was well covered and topped with a yellow mac and hood. She didn't want me to speak to another mum so started stripping off to get my attention and got down to her knickers. The mum and I giggled and she stomped about in her wellies until her brother's class appeared when the mac quickly went back on. That was how I dealt with a strong-willed girl who always wanted her own way. It's easy to judge and some of the examples on here are worrying but no OP, I wouldn't have intervened.

Only once and that was to stop a toddler from toppling right into the road at a crossing as lorries and other vehicles were flying past. We always stand well back but this mother didn't even care that her DD who looked like she hadn't even been walking long, was teetering on the edge of the pavement. My heart was in my mouth and I wouldn't have lived with myself if the worst happened, or allowed my kids to witness anything like that.
I shit myself when I see kids running round close to train platforms too. What are their parents thinking.

Intervened when a group of children were pushing a younger child really high on one of those basket swings and said child was screaming and crying to get off. I just told them to let him off and they did.

I see loads of kids without coats on, babies being carried with nothing on their feet etc in winter, and I do think "god I hope they're not cold" but it's none of my business. My friend has an autistic child who stripped off in his pushchair even in winter, he was always hot.

"This is interesting, I was watching a vlog about Japan and the whole community takes charge of disciplining children and they have a very low crime rate and everyone is lovely and polite."

This is a very simplistic view.

I was watching a vlog about Japan and the whole community takes charge of disciplining children

That's utter crap

This is interesting, I was watching a vlog about Japan and the whole community takes charge of disciplining children and they have a very low crime rate and everyone is lovely and polite.

Japan is a large and diverse country with a huge population, so this comment isn't particularly useful. Also, have you actually been anywhere in Japan? The racism I witnessed whilst there was utterly astonishing. I wouldn't have described everyone as polite and friendly at all. My friends and family who live there wouldn't agree with your comment either, as much as they love the place.

I wouldn't have got involved with the shoe thing but I did when a woman on the beach next to us was calling her 2 year old son every disgusting name under the sun for nothing wont put what i said to her but i dont think I've been that angry in my life . Asked a few others if they knew her ect as I wanted to contact ss .

Before I had children I would have thought this was bad parenting but not now because now I know what children that age (and younger/older) can be like.

I would be very wary of intervening unless the child was in immediate danger. You may not be helping the child if that shamed parent goes home and takes it out on the child in some way.

No I wouldn’t. I have an autistic child and some would be horrified at some of the stuff he’s done over the years .he doesn’t feel cold or pain.

I'd intervene in a dangerous situation or an abusive one but I'm not going to intervene every time someone makes a parenting decision I dont agree with.

@Crustmasiscoming

This is interesting, I was watching a vlog about Japan and the whole community takes charge of disciplining children and they have a very low crime rate and everyone is lovely and polite.

Japan is a large and diverse country with a huge population, so this comment isn't particularly useful. Also, have you actually been anywhere in Japan? The racism I witnessed whilst there was utterly astonishing. I wouldn't have described everyone as polite and friendly at all. My friends and family who live there wouldn't agree with your comment either, as much as they love the place.

Yes I've been to a quite a few places in Japan and witnessed young children about 4/5 catching public transport on their way to school alone and I never saw a Japanese child kick off or have a tantrum in the time I was there as they are taught empathy from a young age so they don't get the whole "if you don't behave" threats, they get taught about how other people think and feel. I imagine if I went shopping today, I'd see a few children kicking off (which whatever children make noise, I don't judge just making a point) I also saw them cleaning down the school etc - I was just making the point how different cultures interact and how whole communities take on the role to teach children, if you look at the crime rate of Japan it's especially low (compared to the UK at least) - I was just mentioning it as I'd just watch the vlog and saw the thread, I thought it was interesting? Obviously I didn't actually mean everyone in the whole of Japan but in general it's seen as safe country with polite residents.

Wasn't really trying to make a useful comment, I'm not saying we should take that role on in the uk although I see nothing wrong with it but people get very defensive and act as though their parenting is being criticised when that's not always the case and like I said if ds was being naughty and I wasn't aware I wouldn't mind another adult correcting his behaviour within reason because what kind of lesson is it to teach children not to respect adults and authority? I doubt your friends and family living there can argue against statistics eg crime rate, I didn't experience any racism in my time, the older generation stared at my tattoos and probably had something to say but that's it and everyone I personally came across was very polite and helpful, they literally couldn't do more if they tried so that's just personal experience but like you said, it's diverse and large not everyone in the world is the same.

Who are you op to judge this mums ‘bad parenting’ the child could’ve stripped down refused to put her shoes on and the mum on the way home from school was already at the end of her tether and along comes you parent of the century to remind her what a shit job she’s doing?....

I might have said ooh aren’t you cold to the little girl where mum could’ve then replied that she took her clothes and shoes off herself and she has them there for her. It’s the lead in you maybe need to work on or if the child isn’t being actively abused or in immediate danger I’d let it go.

I have 4 boys, eldest was a tantrum king until I just let it go id walk away but stay in view let him stamp feet and huff and puff until he’d realise we were doing what I said and not what he wanted and move on, or we would just go home, I was v young and felt stared at and judged and a few nice mums would say they’d been there etc the granny’s used to try and give him sweets drove me mad but we got there. Second was a calm chilled lad no issues with him - is now an awful teenager argh

3rd son is v thrawn, argues black is white and generally quite difficult and frustrating and my youngest is asd and v v difficult so 13 months between them toddler hood was really hard I’d have appreciated a kind word or offer of help but my techniques are based on what works for my children - what worked for ds1 does not work for ds4 who is a runner he needs hands and eyes on him always, it’s very stressful going anywhere with him, lots of planning pre and post explaining exactly where we are going, what will happen and why etc so if something happens that deviates from this it can be fine but it might not be and he’s 9 so big and strong. I think people need to understand that sometimes parents are struggling and needs help and sometimes it looks stressful but they’ve got it as it happens a lot. Just to think how you will try to help and what you might say to not make someone feel they are a bad parent just a struggling one and most of us have been there before. Many adults need to learn empathy I’ll tell you.

However in the case of danger or abuse step in, if that is yourself to stop harm or calling police to assist then I would do that rather than doing nothing.

Some of the other examples are shocking and posters should remember that intervening once and patting yourselves on the back in the case of outright abuse does absolutely fuck all to stop the abuse and could actually make the parent behave even worse towards the child for “embarrassing them in public” or similar.*

Absolutely people should intervene when they see abuse. Those children need to know it's not ok, they're not invisible. It might not stop the abuse but the parent also needs to be aware that their abuse is not invisible either, they can't just get away with it because people are too scared to speak up.

Yes once, when walking through the bus station of my old town.
A child on reigns, literally being dragged along the filthy floor by her mother. Child was screaming, and hyperventilating. The mother was also screaming obscenities, telling the child to 'get up' whilst dragging her more, in-between dragging the child off to her friend that was with her.

Everyone was staring, no one said a word. I said to the mother that if I was her, to pick the child up. She misunderstood me, thought I was offering to pick her up. She was 'nice' to me. I said no, stop dragging your child along the filthy floor, and pick her up. She did. I saw them a couple of other times in the town, the child was in the pushchair.

Had she tried to assault me, I would have dealt with that. I wish someone had the bollocks to stand up for me when I was a child and being abused.

@Boymumzy

I try not to judge other mums. I've offered fellow mums an "It's okay, we've all been there" I've pushed a child on a swing who was screaming at mum to be pushed as she was sorting out baby, picked up dummies, bottles, toy cars thrown from trolleys and prams, kicked balls back, tied laces. I think it's so important that we support eachother, we all know how tough it gets at times and I have been that mother with two under threes, sat on the floor in Peacocks, holding one in each arm whilst they completely lost their shit, I remember being sat there on the ground at the point of tears, feeling everybody's eyes on me and the weight of their judgement, wondering how on earth I was going to manage to carry them both, kicking and screaming, back to the car by myself. I really would have appreciated a kind word and a little understanding that day, so thats what I try to remember when I see a mum at the end of her tether.

After an experience we had I am very wary. We were on the bus and the child in front being very unsettled, the mother doing little about it, playing on her phne, my late OH did his Grandad faces, wiggling eyebrows, twisting his ears to put his tongue out and the child settled to watch and was very happy for the rest of the journey but when the mother realised why her child was happy she screamed at my OH that he was a f'ing pervert, she'd get the cops on to him. So no, I wouldn't get involved.

Not quiet the same but there's a little boy who is the same age as my son who melts my heart. His family are quite loud and don't seem to take much notice of him. When he was three he was playing with my son and another child jumping off a bench (onto grass) whilst waiting for his older sibling to come out of school. His Nan was with him but was slightly round the corner. All of a sudden the other boy pushed him and he landed flat on his back on the floor and after a second began really crying. I ran over and scooped him up and checked him over. I walked over to his Nan and explained and she barely looked at him and said 'eh, he'll be ok'
I tried to pass him over to her and he wouldn't let go of me. He snuggled right into me like a koala. His Nan laughed, called him soft and turned back to chat to someone else.
I carried him back over to where we originally where and rocked him as he cuddled right in.
For months after he would ask if he could come home with me. He broke my heart.

@Neron

Yes once, when walking through the bus station of my old town. A child on reigns, literally being dragged along the filthy floor by her mother. Child was screaming, and hyperventilating. The mother was also screaming obscenities, telling the child to 'get up' whilst dragging her more, in-between dragging the child off to her friend that was with her.

Everyone was staring, no one said a word. I said to the mother that if I was her, to pick the child up. She misunderstood me, thought I was offering to pick her up. She was 'nice' to me. I said no, stop dragging your child along the filthy floor, and pick her up. She did. I saw them a couple of other times in the town, the child was in the pushchair.

Had she tried to assault me, I would have dealt with that. I wish someone had the bollocks to stand up for me when I was a child and being abused.

wow you really helped Well done. perhaps that mum had already carried the child and was tired? perhaps she had been kicked so many times that she decided it'd be easier to try and get the kid to walk again

I hope you feel ashamed because you should be

she might not have told you to fuck off but she sure was thinking it

@grannyinapram yes I DID help. I helped that child that was being dragged along a cold, hard, filthy bus station floor all whilst being screamed at by her mother. I'm not ashamed that me confronting the mother forced her to stop dragging her, and to stop calling her a cunt and how fucking lazy she was. This was a small child.

The mother hadn't carried the child, she had a push chair. She was more interested in having a chat with her friend about where they were going to have their nails done.

You should be ashamed of making excuses for people like my example, that clearly don't deserve to have children. You would just watch whilst the poor kid is subjected to that, that is obvious.