to think that if you are going to present intelligent design to children as fact there should be some indication of this?

[ArmadilloDaMan]

Took ds to a zoo today. As it was half term they were running some extra events.

One was a talk on the animals with the chance to bottle feed lambs and to stroke an alligator. So we went.

It was a detailed talk on different kinds of farm animals and things like crops (they are also a working farm) and well aimed to cover all ages of children.

So far so good. Me and dp thought it was a little odd when they showed a donkey and said the cross was the result of Jesus (you probably know the story) and then the slide show changed from pictures of animals to crosses on a hill in the sunset. They presented it as fact rather than an idea, but we thought no more than odd.

Then they started discussing how chickens grow in an egg (with live chicken, baby chick and egg along with slides). All fine (well the picture on the screen of a live chick next to one lying down with the caption - live body, dead body, both the same body- but they didn't talk about it adn the children were too interested in the chicken trying to escape).

However then he started talking about DNA and genomes. And how they are obviously designed. Therefore there must be a designer and that designer is God. Talked for a few minutes on the subject.

As we went around other areas of zoo there were posters on 'why men and apes are not related' and other such topics, but mostly you would need a GCSE level in science to even start to understand them, so again not too bothered about that (anyone of that age knows enough to make their own mind up).

However there is no indication on the advertising stuff that they are even a christian organisation, let alone one that believes in intelligent design. And if like us you did not go into the undercover areas until the talk you would have no idea.

So AIBU to think that they should at least promote this on their leaflets so people are aware and can choose whether or not they want their children introduced to this as fact before they go?

Sorry I think yabu. I;m a christian but have often taken my children to musuums and places where tgey talk about evolution and although I don,t believe in it I have not thought oh no we must take outr choldren away. What does it mater if your children hear another view point. They are going to hear a lot of different stuff was thay grow up.
DD3 went to this place with Guides when she was 10 and she did not say anything about them telling her about God. She just told us about the different animals and being able to feed tham.

NQC, what's bad design about male nipples? They are a secondary sexual characteristic, and very useful in that function, too, ta very much.

So do the Intelligent Design people believe that the world is 6000 years old, or have I got them mixed up with someone else?

And that man and dinosaurs co-existed?

seeker, that's us Creationists.

I have more time for creationism- I can understand it in that if you are a Christian and believe in the Old testament stories then you have the faith to choose that as your system. ID doesn't seem to be anything- its not really religious in origin, nor is it scientific- its just ointless

Message withdrawn

I had a near-death experience because of Intelligent Design.

Many people do not realise that Australia has Bible Belt as well- for instance, on the Sunshine Coast we had a choice of 6 independent secondary schools. Every ONE of them had a religious affiliation including 2 Christian Fundamentalist colleges.

So there I am, on my patio, barbie fired up nicely, bunch of mates and neighbours around, beer and chat flowing. One of our immediate neighbours was basically a good bloke- gave us a bunch of excess turf, lent tools, wife and DD around for coffee etc. You know, regular folk. I was aware he sent his eldest DS to one of these fundy colleges but naively assumed it was because of affordable fees/ ease of transport and the fact you almost HAVE to choose your poison to, like 36% of the population, send your kids private. I also knew he was a teacher but didn't realise it was AT one of these fundy schools. So, like it does, the subject of religion came up- and I grew increasingly amazed at what this bloke was saying- then, the piece de resistance, he asserted that fossils were the work of the devil, as he CROSSED himself! And I promptly inhaled the contents of a can of Fosters.

Believe me, I was truly amazed! I'm a pom and I guess have grown up with low-key low church CofE, but certainly had never encountered, first-hand someone who wasn't a wild eyed nutter with a sandwich board declaring such ideas in public spaces! Quite a revelation. However, my (atheist) Ozzie husband wasn't in the least surprised. He worked for the government Department for Primary Industry, in their biology labs and regularly worked with biologists, publicly funded scientists who'd rip down posters with any hint of the role evolution played and would demand that links to creationist websites should be on the DPI homepage. QUITE an education for me!

PMSL at fossils being the work of the devil.

As far as geology goes, my husband thinks that diamonds are the work of the devil but that's only because he coughed up for an engagement ring.

People like that are the reason that Queenslanders are the butt of everyone else's jokes in Australia.

I've never heard this 'fossils are of the devil' thing. How very odd.

Sue - I've heard several Christians try to claim that fossils were put on the earth to test their faith (God always was a practical joker - look at poor old Job!) and i've also heard the same Christians claim that evolution is to blame for all the sins in the world, including abortion, as the foetus looks like an amoeba in the in the early stages of its development.

UD, ah me, we Christians can be a very strange bunch. I can't get my head around why a Christian would want to say God is a 'practical joker'.

I'm a bit of a simpleton myself, I'm quite happy with the explanation that things get fossilized a lot quicker than we think.

But I really don't spend my days stressing about this sort of thing.

Sue - i'm not a Christian! was brought up strict Baptist though, it screwed me up gave me an interesting viewpoint on life.

Oh, no, UD, I didn't think you were - I say 'we' because I am a Christian, and I include myself in their general oddness

halloweeny faces!!

Have not read whole thread but I thought that most people know that the Noah's Ark place is run by creationists - it's had a lot of publicity.

You know what I can never work out? Why 'Noah's Ark' is an evergreen kids story. It's a dreadful tale...

Yes you are right Suebaroo

It's very harsh

god me too Suebaroo as you know. I can trace my burgeoning atheism to the Noah's Ark story. I remember thinking as a child
He did WHAT???????
that and the Abraham story
and that one where they chop up that girl who gets raped.
I read the Bible a lot as a child

oh and talking of proselytising
I took dds to a music workshop (not in a church by the way) this week and at the end of it the teacher running it gace a big plug for her church's Festival of Light next Wednesday "because Halloween is evil and we are offering an alternative to look at the good and drive out the darkness"

I was cross, actually.

Don't forget that fella's daughter - where he vowed that if they won, he'd sacrifice the first thing he saw when he got home... and out comes girly. shudder

yes, I kind of think the Halloween thing is silly. It's the name of a Christian Holy day for crying out loud..