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AIBU?

to think that if you are going to present intelligent design to children as fact there should be some indication of this?

209 replies

ArmadilloDaMan · 22/10/2007 16:08

Took ds to a zoo today. As it was half term they were running some extra events.

One was a talk on the animals with the chance to bottle feed lambs and to stroke an alligator. So we went.

It was a detailed talk on different kinds of farm animals and things like crops (they are also a working farm) and well aimed to cover all ages of children.

So far so good. Me and dp thought it was a little odd when they showed a donkey and said the cross was the result of Jesus (you probably know the story) and then the slide show changed from pictures of animals to crosses on a hill in the sunset. They presented it as fact rather than an idea, but we thought no more than odd.

Then they started discussing how chickens grow in an egg (with live chicken, baby chick and egg along with slides). All fine (well the picture on the screen of a live chick next to one lying down with the caption - live body, dead body, both the same body- but they didn't talk about it adn the children were too interested in the chicken trying to escape).

However then he started talking about DNA and genomes. And how they are obviously designed. Therefore there must be a designer and that designer is God. Talked for a few minutes on the subject.

As we went around other areas of zoo there were posters on 'why men and apes are not related' and other such topics, but mostly you would need a GCSE level in science to even start to understand them, so again not too bothered about that (anyone of that age knows enough to make their own mind up).

However there is no indication on the advertising stuff that they are even a christian organisation, let alone one that believes in intelligent design. And if like us you did not go into the undercover areas until the talk you would have no idea.

So AIBU to think that they should at least promote this on their leaflets so people are aware and can choose whether or not they want their children introduced to this as fact before they go?

OP posts:
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StIncognita · 23/10/2007 12:24

and pmsl @ Islam and science marrying well...

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ArmadilloDaMan · 23/10/2007 12:25

who me? I am and Crookshanks is.

OP posts:
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doggiesayswoof · 23/10/2007 12:25

LOL at UnquietDad's diagram

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PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs · 23/10/2007 12:31

Isalm founded many of the methods science uses today- doesn't mean the religion ties in, but the religion was a huge breeding =ground, especially for mathematics and astronomy (and astrology but we'll leave that!)

I'm ex Somerset, now just across bridge and Dh works in bristol

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StIncognita · 23/10/2007 12:37

I only ask as I know of a Christian run zoo that sounds like what you're talking about down Bristol way.

Christianity has quite a few scientists to it's name, too, peachy. Islam and Christianity are about on a level when it comes to marrying well with science.

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PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs · 23/10/2007 12:40

My degree isn't in Islam btw, its world religions - not being biased!

tis park is between bristol and Weston, IIRC. Probably the one you know of.

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StIncognita · 23/10/2007 12:44

lol, I'm not being biased either. I have more grudges against christianity than Islam.

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PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs · 23/10/2007 12:55

You'd fit in well on our course then! Everyone thinks its the religious majority taking it- quite the reverse IME bar one or two very vocal exceptions.

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CrookshanksinJimmyChoos · 23/10/2007 13:41

Islam and Science do marry well together though - honestly! Read more and you will see!

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beeper · 23/10/2007 15:30

What a shocker, a christian run zoo.

Instead of the rest of the Darwin run zoo's.

It's not ID people have a problem with its religion full stop.

Look at your children...does it give you joy to know they came from slime that eventually turned into monkeys....or does it give you joy that a creator god crafted them in you womb.

Man is the highest form of creation on this earth..we should rejoice..not count ourselves amoung the monkeys.

Anyway monkeys have big pink inside out bums...last time I looked well...i dont know

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StIncognita · 23/10/2007 15:45

"monkeys have big pink inside out bums"

I think you should e-mail that one to Ken Ham, I bet he hasn't thought of that evolution-confounding factoid yet.

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meemar · 23/10/2007 16:00

Beeper 'It's not ID people have a problem with its religion full stop'.

I think you are wrong.

The OP herself has said she's a Christian. Also I think someone mentioned on this thread that the Pope and the Archbishop of Canturbury dismiss the theory of ID.

It's misleading to try and place creationist theories in with the beliefs of most mainstream Christians.

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StIncognita · 23/10/2007 16:11

Oh, I don't know, I think beeper is right in one sense. People do get put off-guard when they find religion in a place where they don't expect to find it.

I don't have any problem with a Christian run petting zoo being run according to Christian beliefs. It's the unexpected nature of the religious element that winds people up.

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Bambiraptor · 23/10/2007 16:53

I haven't read the whole thread but I do know that the vast majority of religions are not at all opposed to the idea of micro evolution ( where genetic mutations cause variations) and most accept it as fact.

It is the theory of macro evolution (where everything living and non living in the universe has evolved from hydrogen gas)that alot of religions AND scientists have yet to be convinced by.

People have different ideas about life. It doesn't really matter in this context, does it?

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beeper · 23/10/2007 16:56

I don't actually do ID either, I failed to say that I believe in straightforward Biblical creation. (ducks for cover).

We all have a belief system even if we say we don't..evolution along with climate change is almost at religion status amoung many academics.

But what I do agree with is that 'chrisitans' who try to manipulate thier views on others by the back door make me ashamed. I don't know the full facts about this zoo but if it has an agenda then it should be upfront about it.

If you feel that you have a genuine grievence with the zoo then you should write to them and let them know where you stand. It behoves all christians to be able to give a loving answer as to why they have followed a particular course of action. If you do this you may find they will change the policy to be more open in the future, it is doubtful that they would change their stance but you would be more informed before you made that choice to go.

We all have priciples that we hold dear, and we can't all agree but what we need is clarity and truthfulness in order to go forward.

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UnquietDad · 23/10/2007 17:20

It's all about the amount of evidence there is. Scientists who "believe" in evolution and climate change only do so because of the overwhelming weight of evidence - if the evidence were the other way they'd consider it.

By the way - on climate change - fascinating to watch this if you have a spare 9 minutes.

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PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs · 23/10/2007 17:20

I am certainly not anti-religion- I just think we have right to know what we are taking our children to experience. As somone who rarely goes into the education palces in these areas when I take my kids (crowds), my zoo'z dont tend to be Christian, Darwinist or anything much beyond a colection of animals .

Actually alst zoo like education place I visited was a Hindu run one- the one where they ahd all that furore with the bullock with TB

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EmsMum · 23/10/2007 17:37

Beeper, it gives me huge joy to know that such a wonderous thing as my DD has evolved on this little blue planet.

If I believed in a Creator, I'd be a bit ticked off he hadn't designed her with a more reliable bladder and a sleep switch.

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mylittlefreya · 23/10/2007 17:52

Noah is in the Old Testament, isn't he - that bit that Jews use as part of their Torah. So even from the name, they are not necessarily Christians, or fundamentalist Christians.

Good on you, Crookshanks, for being there and being confident in your hejab.

I would be mildly irritated - my DP would be hugely annoyed, if it happened to us. I bet schoolchildrens' parents are a bit if their impressionable los come home with all this in their heads.

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PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs · 23/10/2007 17:56

Noah is a prophet in Islam too.

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beeper · 23/10/2007 18:00

at emsmum

Created with freewill. lol

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Pruners · 23/10/2007 19:27

Message withdrawn

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justaboutdrippingblood · 23/10/2007 19:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bambiraptor · 23/10/2007 19:59

Pruners, you could say exactly the same thing about the intelligent design theory. Neither theory has to be anything to do with religion.

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NotQuiteCockney · 23/10/2007 20:25

Huh? ID theory isn't in any way the same as evolution - there isn't an overwhelming body of evidence to support it, it posits the existance of an intelligent designer (aka God), and is only supported by religious folk. Intelligent Design isn't a scientific theory at all.

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