h went to strip club - thread 2

[porcelaine]

hi all,
as my thread has filled up I am starting a new one. I genuinely cannot thank you who posted enough for giving me some much needed strength.
he has been calling me this morning, I haven't picked up. I have no intention of it. I also took notifications off my text messages so I only access them when I want to. its not ideal but I have realised he may be trying to make me look unreasonable atm to gain "the upper hand" (in his mind} and texting with him really upsets me.
I am currently going through quite a lot of guilt which I am not sure is normal in this situation, but where I feel like, even if we tried again and everything was somehow ok, its not the life I want for myself. I want to be with a man of better character who I actually like and respect, and I want to be able to do things like my book without being emotionally thrown off, and I want peace in my home for dc. all those things would have a good effect on dc too, but I am worried that this is about me putting myself first by saying no, I dont want this anymore. does that makes sense?

Op you need to read what almost every poster on this thread is telling you.
He is doing this deliberately to headfuck you and make you feel as if everything is your fault and he is the one trying to keep you together.
His leaving is a gift. Take it.

Why are you allowing him to have all the control here, OP? Your feelings, emotions and desires count in this too. You have handed him the reins and complain that he is steering.

Make a decision that suits you; whether that's to separate or whether its to try again. That's your decision and its your right. Who cares what MN think? Who cares if people in your life believe his narrative that YOU caused the split, rather than him? Do those small things count in the grand scheme of your life? In 10 years time will you be caring if his friends wife/ MIL / school mum you bumped into one time all believed that you caused the split? No!

People leave marriages every day for a multitude of reasons. None of those reasons need to be explained to people outside the marriage. Hell, half the time they don't get explained to people IN the marriage! Stop being so self conscious about what the world thinks, and start deciding what YOU think and what YOU want.

Don't be a secondary character in your own life.

OP, I know I’m only just joining this but my god I completely echo whatever everyone is saying to you! He is doing this to mindfuck you!!

You know, you already gave him the second chance he now seems to be asking for! And he chose to waste that chance.

At this point you can look at yourself in the mirror and say 'I gave it my best shot and got out before wrecking the kids' childhoods'.

If you let him back you won't be able to say that. You'll be inviting his shite back into their lives, and you'll only be half-living, waiting for the inevitable to happen.

You've already made the break. He can try to spin that but it ultimately doesn't matter. Who cares what outsiders think? You're taking mature adult actions and he...well, he isn't.

Best thing you can do is stop reading his texts. He's not trying to work with you to give the kids a good Christmas, he's manipulating you into accepting less than you deserve in a partner.

you know he is just pushing buttons dont you.

You didnt react the right way when he said it was done and he left - you didnt beg him back.

You didnt plead with him to return when he went to his mums

when his mum rang and offered for you to pretend it never happened and for you to try again, you didnt agree

when he said it was proper over this time, no kidding, actually really really, you STILL didnt jump and beg him back

And now he is making another threat.

It was done already when he went to the strip club. This is all about him trying to regain control and 'allow' the relationship to continue after your appalling behaviour in questioning him and not being cool with it.

And it wasnt good when he came back. You said he was supposed to be on best behaviour but he wasnt. He may have made some superficial efforts but actually he was still thinking you were wrong for having chucked him out in the first place. And pleased his begging worked to get his feet back under the table.

He wasnt grateful for a second chance, he was entitled. He felt he should be there and that he should be able to behave however he liked. The niceness was lip service to get you to shut up. He actually believes his own shit, Im sure, and thats the problem. He really thinks what he has done is fine, which means that he will do the same again. and again. and again.

Ive been through the mill with one of these guys and they never change. He did it to the next one. and the next one, and the next one and he still never thinks anything he does is wrong.

OP, he DIDN’T leave or initiate the separation. He simply said that to scare you into submission. He never meant a word of it. He has done it to you before. This is manipulation, gaslighting and emotional abuse.

YOU have all the cards here. Use them wisely. He is counting on you caving in and feeling like it’s all your fault into the bargain. Please don’t let him. You will only go through all of this again one day and, next time, he could take all the money. What kind of life can you realistically expect if you take him back again? I’ve never met you and I, and the rest of mumsnet, know it won’t be a happy one. And so do you.

If you stick to your guns, you will go through a miserable time for a while and then you will come out of it so much better. If you go back, you are only delaying this tough journey until he does it again. Or again. Or again. And we are all here to hold your hand.

He took the money, he left my family,s whatsapp chat (I know that sounds stupid but he’d never done that before and it was a pretty visible statement), he said he would look for another place . And I had to wake up the next day with dc confused and deal with that, assuming that was it, and now it was never true??? Who would make a gamble like that? Who would be this cruel?? That’s what I’m struggling with...... am I the unreasonable one for saying NO? I can’t live like this. It’s like emotional terrorism, you get angry I’ll leave. But I’ll come back if you back down. It’s bullying. If it was dc I’d say it was bullying.
I hate this.

Bullies can't bully someone who doesn't respond. Unfortunately that doesn't leave you anywhere to put your anger. Rant on here; that's better than letting him see he's wearing you down.

This is the turning point OP.

You either allow him to bully you into submission and give him the clearest of signals that no matter how badly he behaves, you will stay with him.

Or you disengage and accept the relationship is over, knowing that he is simply rewriting history so as not to be 'the bad guy'.

He walked out on you when you were devastated he spent hundreds on strippers at a time you were both working on your relationship, he lied to you, he held your relationship and family life to ransom and he walked out of the door to leave you picking up the pieces.

Do not take him back. It's only delaying the inevitable if you try again as this is not a happy healthy relationship to be in.

Six months from now you can either be in a relationship with a sexist, lying, selfish, smug prick who now knows he can grind you down into dust until you have so little confidence left that you believe he is all you deserve OR you can be enjoying life free from emotional terrorism, bullying, lying and selfish behaviour.

Your kids deserve to see adults living healthy, happy, productive, joyful lives. You cannot have one with this man.

Please don't cave now you've come so far and you sound awesome, don't let a man dictate the terms of your existence. Do not sacrifice your needs for his wants

I think you need to harness your anger and use it to make him realise that you hold all the cards here and that you will decide how things are going forward. You get to decide. He is trying to make you think he is in control and is allowing you a way back - he knows he lost control the moment he walked out.

Don't take him back. Your new life starts here. Read the texts when you're ready.

As much as it hurts, and is unfair, let him say what he wants.
It doesn't affect anything. You know the truth, the people who care know the truth, and him lying to himself shows the kind of spineless creature he is.

He's just throwing anything out there now to try and find your 'weak spot'. It's all guff and hot air. He's playing on your natural instinct to keep your family together and give the kids a nice Xmas. It won't be nice though - it's gone too far for that. He's a cruel immature man.

Honestly I'd sit back with a cuppa and watch him dance around a bit more and then self-combust.

The line I found most effective when my exH found that life without me wasn't as good as he had hoped was "this was your choice"

I just repeated that whenever he complained/contacted me
Let him say what he wants OP, you know the truth. Don't give him headspace, plan a lovely Christmas with people who love and respect you.

I didn't explain very well - he chose to go to the strip club, he chose to say you were over, he chose to leave the family group, he chose to take half the money. All his choices

He's been bullying you since he first threatened to leave 6 months into your marriage.

He is a bully.
You have anxiety from living with a sulky, selfish, nasty bully.

He has zero respect or regard for you or your children.

He packed up and left in the juvenile way he behaves to try and put manners on you.

You have been years living in a highly emotionally abusive relationship where you never know if you are coming or going.

You allowed him back into tge home and look where that got you.

This is who he is.
Could he be any clearer.

Please dont allow him back in.
You have been so strong.
Do it for your children.
You are a better, stronger, calmer mother with out this head wreck terrorising you in your home.

Be brave.
You can do this.

You deserve a clam peaceful life.

He will never allow you peace.

OP this isn't your fault.
You didn't spend hundreds of pounds on intimate dances.
Then lie.
Then spend hundreds more on a charity donation to look better.
Then lie some more.
Then flounce out of the house leaving your other half to manage the dc.
Then get your mum to try and make your partner agree that nothing had happened.

Honestly he is not behaving in a way that makes a third chance seem a good way forward.
This is still all about him. I'm not seeing any need for you to feel guilty.

Op he is playing with you in the way a cat plays with a bird. He knows what he is doing and it is all about him. Your updates certainly don't suggest he has even a tiny amount of care or regard for your feelings and he certainly doesn't seem to have any genuine remorse.

If he was sorry he'd be at pains to genuinely be remorseful, give you the time you said you needed and be doing anything he could to make things right.

What he is actually doing is terrorising you, playing with your emotions and trying to get you to behave and react in a way that is easy for him.

As an outsider "looking in" I suspect if you roll over now, this will be your relationship. He will behave appallingly, you'll pull him up on it, he will flounce and the cycle will behind again until he grinds your mental health and self esteem enough to just not stand up for yourself.

All I can say is it really isn't your fault. He made the choice to do what he did, and he made the choice to initiate the separation by leaving. This is NOT your fault in anyway.

If you do decide to tell him to stay away, don't get drawn into the semantics of at which point the "separation" starts. The bottom line is regardless of how he spins it, HE left the marital home took money out of the joint bank account. Those actions speak far more loudly than you saying you don't want him back.

This is so very sickening to read Op, he's done a real job on you.
Remember what has actually happened here. I am actually very angry for you.
Time to take a big step back, get your head straight. It sounds like you're overwhelmed with emotions at the moment. Please don't listen to anymore of his crap. You've allowed him to really take control and screw with your head here. Sending strength for you.

it absolutely is bullying.
And as others said, his threat to leave the marriage any time you express a problem or are upset is bullying too. Its training you to never express a negative feeling about him, never to raise an issue on the threat that the marriage will be over if you do.

My ex did this too. A week into our marriage, but I was too blind and panicked to see what was going on. Anytime I was upset by stuff, and the stuff I was upset by was perfectly reasonable stuff to be upset by, but gradually increased and increased in where the boundaries were being pushed. I started to not know if up was down or in was out because of the lying and the gaslighting. And like you I kicked him out and he came slinking back promising the world but not changing one little bit.

My therapist told me that I was so tied up in constantly firefighting his drama and his ways of manipulating me, that I couldnt see the big overall picture, nor realise that I could simply step away and stop playing his game, because I would never win his game as it wasnt a fair game. To be fair both people needed to be invested equally in each others wellbeing, whereas he was only interested in his own, and me being as quiet and STFU so as to give him as little grief as possible while he went about doing whatever he wanted and I kept the home fires burning for him. Life could be lovely with him. But only if I was nice when he came home and never questioned or criticised or had any needs of my own.
Thats not a relationship.

Please please do not have him back for Christmas! He’s a horrible evil scumbag who wants to be a victim of his oh so distant wife who forced him through the doors of a strip club. He is vile and you and your dc will be a thousand times better off without him.

Dont even get involved, you're done, what more is there? I dont even see people again after breaking up when its been amicable. You said you wanted to be the one to end it? well hes dropped that chance into your lap now. Just cut it off and the faster you will return to normal, or better than normal, I promise.

I had a breakup recently and whilst i was temporarily destroyed I pushed myself on and even managed to have some sort of emotional improvement time to get myself off anti depressants after 10 years. Its all positives from here on in for you.

His mums sick if him already and wants him out.

How is it your fault? Do you routinely force grown men to withdraw money late at night, visit strip clubs for god knows what services then pack their bags & force them home to their parents?

If you do let me know how you do it because my dh won’t shave his beard off and I hate beards.

I read your other thread, I want to send you a massive hug and a promise that if you take him back it will get worse. The other posters are right - he's annoyed because you aren't doing what he wants by begging him to come home. It isn't your fault - not any of it - because you aren't obliged in any way to forgive what he did. Its not even a one off, there is a back story here and a prior separation. These aren't the actions of a man trying to save his relationship.

I see this countless times, and I experienced it myself. Exes who blame us for not being forgiving enough, saying "I wanted to sort things out but you didn't" or "oh but I only made two mistakes, it was unreasonable to not let me make one more", and my personal favourite "Yes I know you said it would be over if I lied again but you force me to lie because you don't trust me"

He doesn't need to change his mind - because its not his decision whether its over - its yours x

You are not unreasonable at all porcelaine

He tried his luck, thought that by bullying you he would get away with it again.
He is not out out that you are not playing the game anymore and just do as he says.

HE is the one who is at the root of it all. You’ve tried and he hasn’t.
Unfortunatly you are also the ine who is dealing with the fall out with the dcs. But be sure that it also mean they will see through it and know who is responsible there.

Stay strong.