To be frustrated by comments about unborn/ young girls - e.g “lock her up til she’s 25’

[Wishing14]

Firstly, I get that most people who make these sort of comments are coming from a good place, and see it as being protective and probably endearing BUT...

When I had my little boy I had no such comments at all. Now I’m pregnant and it’s a girl people say things like, “well she won’t be allowed boyfriends until she’s at least 30” or “bet you’ll lock her up until she’s 25” (usually to my partner rather than me).

I feel my unborn baby has already been sexualised and her sex life as a grown woman already being discussed and I just think it’s ... weird? Old fashioned, sexist, patronising, inappropriate.

I personally think it stems from the inequality that still exists in our society re boys and girls, but implies girls are incapable of independence, making their own decisions, and must be locked away and protected by men until a suitable time when they can be ‘given away’ to a man. I think if you want to raise confident, capable girls and women who know their own self-worth this is exactly the sort of thing you should NOT say. I don’t get why boys and girls are treated so differently before they even take their first breath.

But AIBU? Have you experienced similar?

I find this so odd, I have never heard this did about a female child by people I actually know, not has anyone said my toddler is a flirt! They've said he's gorgeous, lovely smile, beautiful hair (curly, blonde we get that a lot), you need to rethink who you're talking to.

Saying a young girl needs locking up until she's 25 strongly implies that if she's attractive men can't be held responsible for sexually assaulting her. If I ever heard someone say that I would be that blunt in my response, 'excuse me are you saying if my daughter grows up to be perceived as attractive I need to lock her up to stop men raping her, because bless them they just can't help themselves!'
It's disgusting.

@IamTomHanks hmmm I disagree with the excusing of sexist comments about children and the "lock them up till they're 25" narrative. But, much as I hate to say it @lovepickledlimes does have a sort of point about the relative risks. In an ideal world young women should be free to be as sexually active as they see fit but in the real world the risks are far more on them than young men:

1. Pregnancy is still something that will affect women than men. Men shouldnt just walk away but they frequently do
2. Lots of STDs carry more risk to women than men and, in heterosexual sex it is easier for women to catch many STDs from men than Vice-vers (HIV for example)
3. The above issues can be mitigated by condoms but unfortunately stealthing is still a thing
4. Semingly nice men suddenly deciding they want to enact some violent porn scene they saw in the bedroom with no prior warning is also a thing
5. Women are still judged more on their sexuality than men. This is even worse now with camera phones and revenge porn etc. Some 16 year old girls and even younger have had their whole lives ruined because of this.

So, it shouldnt be the case, but I would still advice any daughter to be careful/dicerning in the sexual choices she makes. None of which excuses "locking" your daughter up type comments so this is a bit of a derail really.

None of which excuses "locking" your daughter up type comments so this is a bit of a derail really.

This is my point. Yes women are more at risk, but lock her up comments, no matter how light heartedly they are meant, reinforce all of those 5 things you listed and contribute to them, it doesn't solve them.

@IamTomHanks Agree 100%! i just think that sometimes it can come from a (misplaced) good intention.

DH and I both hate the attitude, not seen it much ourselves. DH always says his attitude is when she has her first partner, he hopes they show her a good time! (At this rate, first partner looking more likely to be a girl than a boy anyway - she's in secondary now)

@KizzyWayfarer - I like your response. I mean, FGS, it's not like there isn't contraception, like there's still some terrible shame in sex before marriage or that men are allowed to drag women off by the hair.

Just have to use the same replies as women usually get, when you ask to lock up your daughters etc... "well it's not all men!!!"

Then you can see how ridiculous the argument is.

I do understand that there are differences between men and women (such as in terms of consequences) and obviously these comments stem from this. For example the whole institution of marriage largely stems from a functional need (pre birth control) to ensure a child is not abandoned by a father and that ‘waiting until marriage’ until you have sex made sense in such a time when there was no birth control. It was needed to ensure society functioned. Or the idea that men are ‘manly’ etc stems partly from a long history of men and boys who have fought for their country and laid down their life in doing so. I don’t think people are coming from a bad place when they make these comments at all, they have arisen out of a long and complicated history of humankind and society which has led us to where we are today.
But as times move on and we aim for equality I do think it’s important to question and challenge such prejudices and to question what effect our words and actions have on our children, who they become, and the world they create.
I also agree with posters that it’s better to inform and educate and support girls to make their own decisions as they grow up.

@Thatwentbadly

Look them in the eye with a dead pan face and ask them “why would we do that?” They are probably just repeating well worn phrases without a thought of what they mean. Make them think about it.

Yes do this! call them out on their ridiculous antediluvian ideas

When my first DS was born, a cousin of his (over rigid) grandfather wrote a poem for the baby and one of the lines was that they wished the child would “dare to do what his heart dictates” I loved that.

Whether DS or DD, I think the answer to these ridiculous remarks could be something along the lines of “I’m sure he/she will be quite capable of making their own choices”

@LouLou789 yes I like that, “She’ll be free to make her own choices in her life, thank you”

My husband gets really furious when people say this about our 2yo. He always replies 'Are you suggesting my 2yo is a slag?' that shuts em up

I also mean equality of opportunity (rather than equality of outcome) in case anyone asks!

How sad that in 2020 there's still the view that policing girls and joking about controlling their future love life is still considered more reasonable than teaching boys that women and girls aren't primarily there for their pleasure?

Given how quick people are to defend sexist stereotyping of children, is it any wonder the relationships boards are full of women who think that wanting a male partner who pulls his weight around the house and is respectful to women is apparently a ridiculously high set of expectations?

@nimbuscloud

How about a buggy with a plate on it (like a car reg plate). ‘Virgin 4 ever’. Needless to say the occupant of the buggy was a small girl.

Vom face.

This type of comment make me feel an irrational rage. I have three boys, and everytime someone says something about "locking their daughters away" "daddy has a gun" "she can date when she's 30" , it makes me wonder if they're implying that my boys will grow up to be arseholes who treat women poorly? It annoys me both for their daughter and my sons. It's childish and makes me think that the people who say this are sexist and only have this view on things because they themselves are arseholes who are incapable of treating a woman, or anyone for that matter, with respect and decency.

Those dismissing this as harmless or just unthinking jokes - no. No it really isn’t. It should be challenged every single time, in the same way that casual racism should be.

These sort of attitudes don’t die out naturally. They need to be called out.

Not to mention that this involves treating the daughter as a possession who has to be locked away because her 'owner' wishes her to remain pure, so she is not allowed to live a life for herself where she experiences interactions with a wide variety of people and learns how to judge their true characters
Instead she is treated like an object, she's not allowed to develop as a person, she has to remain in kind of pristine condition and her 'purity' stands as a measure of the power of her owner

YADNBU these comments are gross. The only thing I can say in these people’s defence is that they probably say these things automatically without thinking through the meaning. That’s why I think it’s best to respond with something that makes them think or that corrects the position. Something like “actually we’d love her to date as much as she likes so she doesn’t repeat the mistakes we made with our exes” - to show them how negative an outcome their way of thinking can lead to.

@Thatwentbadly

Look them in the eye with a dead pan face and ask them “why would we do that?” They are probably just repeating well worn phrases without a thought of what they mean. Make them think about it.

Best suggestion. Conveys that you think they're ridiculous for saying it and might also make them think about why they did.

If they double down on gross gender norms then you know where you stand with them (far away).

Yanbu but as a mother of a 4 year old girl I do worry about how men might treat her. I get wary of men when out and wonder who is a paedophile. I'd love it if she could stay at home until 25 or 30. I want to protect her from perverts and abusers.

@Rainedere Would you have the same fears if you had a 4 year old son? It’s not only girls that paedophiles rape. You can’t stop a daughter living her life to the fullest because there are sickos in the world.

@Spelunking I would worry about my son being randomly assaulted by other men. But i would fear more for my daughter, just from personal experience of street harassment from adult males from 12 years old.

@Rainedhere I was a C cup at 11 so I got a fair bit of harassment but more from the boys at school that would just come up to me and grab them. I felt a bit useless actually as if I’d told my dad he would have kicked off. My mum would have told my dad. If I’d told on them at school I would have been bullied by girls and boys
. I suppose you have to live with it to learn how to handle it. It’s not ideal and shouldn’t happen (and I don’t want my daughters to have to put up with it) but there are just some really shoddy parents out there that don’t teach their kids how to behave properly.

@Spelunking sorry that that happened to you. I would put DD in a girls school to protect her from males of all ages.

[quote Rainedere]@Spelunking sorry that that happened to you. I would put DD in a girls school to protect her from males of all ages.[/quote]
Boys and men aren't all to be feared. I have a boy and a girl and am appalled by the idea that precious girls have to be locked away from dangerous boys. Girls aren't perfect and can bully too. Surely the best way to bring up both boys and girls is to teach them to respect other people and to be able to look after themselves.