The way (some) teachers talk to students and anyone

[Lurcherloves]

I had a meeting at DS school today about his a levels. He is lazy and did need a kick. But the head of sixth form, who is not one of his teachers, basically just launched into a tirade of abuse for about 20 minutes. The two other teachers there didn’t know where to look (and tried to undo some of her damage afterwards) She was saying he shouldn’t be working (10 hours a week, I think it gives good life skills) will be sitting on the sofa next year (he won’t) her five year old does two hours a day home work on and on very aggressively. There was nothing motivational and on reflection, I cannot think of any where in the adult world where it would be acceptable to talk to someone as she did. She was incredibly patronising to me ( I am more qualified than her but didn’t feel the need to point this out and have worked as a lecturer at a college before qualifying into another profession. I knew full well a lot of what she was saying was nonsense.)
AIBU or do some teachers talk to everyone in a patronising manner? This lady certainly got a little carried away with herself. I was quite shocked at the power trip she was on.

just launched into a tirade of abuse for about 20 minutes....She was saying he shouldn’t be working (10 hours a week, I think it gives good life skills) will be sitting on the sofa next year (he won’t) her five year old does two hours a day home work

@Lurcherloves

What was the abuse? It's hard to judge unless you tell us that, not just the perfectly reasonable things she said. I don't understand why if (for example) she was calling your son a cunt you would allow it to continue.

20 minutes is a very long time for one person to speak, are you sure you are being realistic?

This lady certainly got a little carried away with herself. I was quite shocked at the power trip she was on.

Obviously I wasn't there and if she was abusive that's terrible but it sounds like she was being 'bad cop' so his teachers can be good cop. This is a very normal thing I would request from a manager. Most parents are very supportive.

I cannot think of any where in the adult world where it would be acceptable to talk to someone as she did.

Obviously it's different to how you would motivate an adult because children are different.

I think you have been very lucky if all your employer's have spoken to you in ways which make this seem extreme.

I am more qualified than her but didn’t feel the need to point this out and have worked as a lecturer at a college before qualifying into another profession.

That's like someone with an Art History PhD saying they are more qualified than their GP. The nature of specialised qualifications is that they only make you an expert in one field.

I know what you mean, I had a similar meeting at my DS's school (pre CV19). The teacher just launched into a tirade about previous pupils who were clever but had failed, tales of other pupils who hadn't got what they wanted, how summer would be full of regrets and worry. He even named a student as an example!

I cut in and told him very calmly but very icily that whilst I appreciated the time he was taking to talk to us, two things were a problem for me. Firstly, how was his speech motivating and secondly how was it providing any solutions to the problems he was seeing. I also told him that whilst I'd like to see DS fulfil his potential, his happiness was more important so please would he stop shouting at us as solutions are usually arrived at calmly rather than making people panic. I also took up the issue of naming a student with the school.

As it happened DS didn't take his A levels as no one did, he did get an unconditional offer at Uni, he's done a successful first term and is really enjoying it (thankfully!). Don't let him harangue your son!

mincefuckinpies

I know. But when she illustrates this “tirade”, it was clearly not a tirade of abuse. It was a concerned telling off.

The OP can come back and contradict that, if she likes.

What’s the point of even engaging?

Because when there's a teacher bashing post it's no bad thing for posters to show support of teachers and an alternative viewpoint?

There’s patronising people in every walk of life. I’ve been patronised by doctors, mechanics, the guy in the local shop, Uber drivers, dentists, hair dressers, the list goes on. Sometimes people are knobs, it’s not reserved for teachers. To be honest, if I told the out and out truth to some of my A level students they and their parents really wouldn’t like it. I don’t because it’s not my way, but I have plenty of days when I wish I could. Even more so when I worked in secondary.

Yes, that's true. I've been patronised by hair dressers and workmen in the past. I actually judge mechanics and workmen not just on how they do the job but on how patronising they are and it helps decide whether i want to reuse them.

[quote Maireas]@Arrivederla - well that goes against Education dept advice - it doesn't matter what tier you are in, currently no face to face with parents. Extra cleaning, extra space, etc plus the Headteachers have extra problems with the track and trace. It's very problematic.[/quote]
I'll give you the principal's number and you can give him a ring maireas.

My point is that there is no sense in posters insisting that this couldn't have happened because of Covid restrictions. All the schools in our MAT are having face to face meetings at the moment.

not sure what your qualifications have got to do with it.

In all honesty, maybe your son shouldn't be working 10 hours a week if he isn't doing his work. You might not have liked her tone and the fact that she didn't sugar coat what she said but if you step back from that is she right? Is your son currently on track for poor results that will limit his choices? If so, you need to focus on that rather than getting annoyed that he was told off!

@Arrivederla - thank you. DM me.
It could be that you have a very spacious school and a bigger cleaning budget. Maybe the Head is very efficient with the track and trace.
It just seems to me a lot of bother for a teacher to rant.

There’s patronising people in every walk of life. I’ve been patronised by doctors, mechanics, the guy in the local shop, Uber drivers, dentists, hair dressers, the list goes on. Sometimes people are knobs, it’s not reserved for teachers.

This is very true but in my experience teachers are more vulnerable to accusations of being patronising (from defensive, touchy fools) because they are trained to be very clear and explicit in explanations.

As it happened DS didn't take his A levels as no one did, he did get an unconditional offer at Uni, he's done a successful first term and is really enjoying it (thankfully!). Don't let him harangue your son!

But in this case your son was lucky, wasn’t he? Would you still be saying his happiness was more important than just doing his work if it meant he failed his exams and got no or a bad uni place, if you knew his ‘happiness’ just meant ‘not being told off’? Don’t you think it’s important that a teacher/tutor holds their students to account for their work and progress?

I've had teaching colleagues that spoke to everyone like a disobedient y9 on a Friday afternoon.
Maybe they were always patronising twats that were attracted to teaching because it was a socially acceptable way of being a patronising twat.
Maybe they blundered into it by dealing with too many disobedient y9s on Friday afternoons and lost their social filter.
Teaching is certainly not immune to recruting that personality type and is possibly attractive to it. There's good career progression in it where you can rise through the wanks ranks to SLT and pass through the other side to OFSTED or consultancy. That doesn't mean that most in those strata are like that, or that any other career is immune.

My A-level MFL teacher went off on an unprofessional tirade at me for mistakenly not completing one task out of six. He repeated it again a few weeks later and I walked out. He shattered my confidence which was counter-productive to his aim of improving my oral work, and I ended up havjng a private tutor to undo the damage.
He was clearly unpopular with other staff. My form tutor consoled me and he was clearly not her favourite. Some years later I was in the staffroom while on a placement and heard criticism of his management of his department.
They are out there.

Teacher bashing would be accusing all teachers of being like that, which they aren't.

It sounds like she perhaps didn't address you properly, but as a 6th form teacher, the lazy students are often the most difficult to support
Especially when they know that parents will gloss over any lack of effort on their part but will probably be really quick to ask what the school is doing about their child's poor performance.

In my experience there's a link between parents who insist that everything else in their child's life is more important than studying, say things like 'they lazy but....' and those who are quick to complain if teachers aren't running revision classes or classes in the holidays before exams.

In the 6th forms I've worked at the only reason a parent and student would have a meeting with several staff at once is if 6th form leadership were calling the meeting due to substantial concerns across a number of subjects.

So your son works 10hrs a week for "life skills" but can't be arsed to do the work to get the qualifications he's signed up for?

I'm assuming he's doing A levels if it's school. So he's bright enough but clearly being lazy. That's his issue, not school or the teacher's.

School will have tried quite a lot to get him back on track before they've called you in. So he's not responded to anything prior to this meeting. Parental meetings are reserved for the "this kid is going to fail and we've tried everything" level of seriousness.

And you think the teacher has the wrong attitude to be honest about your son's lack of effort and engagement?

Think you might have misplaced your ire and directed it towards the wrong person. The person in the wrong here is your lazy progeny. Maybe having his laziness and lack of progress pointed out made you feel uncomfortable. If so, job done. Now fix the issues with your son.

That's not to say the teacher wasn't maybe rude. Perhaps they were.

But maybe "motivation" talks this term have already failed?

I don't know the full circumstances of the term for your son and his teachers. But I think you'll have misplaced your priorities if you chase this issue instead of addressing the issues with your son.

So your son works 10hrs a week for "life skills" but can't be arsed to do the work to get the qualifications he's signed up for?

“Life skills” like time management (he isn’t managing his time), commitment (he isn’t showing any), prioritisation (he’s prioritising the wrong things), negotiation (he’s getting his mam down the school).

Hmmm.

Times Ed published some research a few years ago that students who work do better at school and college. Within limits, obviously. It encourages a sense of responsibility.

My kids are recently grown and in the main I've had no problem with teachers. Most have been great and some long suffering. However, you DO get the odd rude and highly patronising teacher, so I can't understand the pile on.

Not sure if it was this?

www.iser.essex.ac.uk/research/publications/working-papers/iser/2014-42.pdf

However, you DO get the odd rude and highly patronising teacher, so I can't understand the pile on.

Everyone disagreeing is not a pile on, it's he literal purpose of the board.

What you say true but the reasons most people are disagreeing are: nothing cited is abuse, several claims seem unlikely, OP comes across as touchy and it's clear that the teacher was trying to help this child avoid failure so most parents would focus on that.

Perhaps OP has just been unclear in communicating the problem and will elaborate shortly but on the surface her post does seem very That Parent.

I will not hesitate in saying that if it’s a choice between being that parent, or my son or daughter being that child, I’ll be that parent.

And every parent should think the same.

I’ll happily be ‘that parent’ as well, when the situation calls for it. Not when my child is not turning their work in, though.

The thing is that any parent challenging a school being genuinely unreasonable isn't 'that parent ', and a parent who needs to complain can do without being 'that parent'.I'd have no questions about complaining if there was an issue concerning my child that warranted it.

Ultimately, a member of staff pointing out that an A Level student isn't working hard enough and has a poor attitude in front of the student, parent and two colleagues is not an abusive tirade.

I will not hesitate in saying that if it’s a choice between being that parent, or my son or daughter being that child, I’ll be that parent.

No, those two things often go together:

OPs child has fallen sufficiently behind to need a face to face with the head of sixth form.

OP focuses on perceived slights from the teacher rather than how to get him to do the work.

I see this correlation frequently enough to make me think there might be a causal link.

There’s a way of doing it though Lola (I know you know this.)

I had to attend a meeting like this as an adult, as a teacher. Horrible. I don’t know why people are assuming it couldn’t be the case.

I don’t know why people are assuming it couldn’t be the case.

I honestly don't think anyone has said that, just that (based on the OP) it doesn't seem likely.