The way (some) teachers talk to students and anyone

[Lurcherloves]

I had a meeting at DS school today about his a levels. He is lazy and did need a kick. But the head of sixth form, who is not one of his teachers, basically just launched into a tirade of abuse for about 20 minutes. The two other teachers there didn’t know where to look (and tried to undo some of her damage afterwards) She was saying he shouldn’t be working (10 hours a week, I think it gives good life skills) will be sitting on the sofa next year (he won’t) her five year old does two hours a day home work on and on very aggressively. There was nothing motivational and on reflection, I cannot think of any where in the adult world where it would be acceptable to talk to someone as she did. She was incredibly patronising to me ( I am more qualified than her but didn’t feel the need to point this out and have worked as a lecturer at a college before qualifying into another profession. I knew full well a lot of what she was saying was nonsense.)
AIBU or do some teachers talk to everyone in a patronising manner? This lady certainly got a little carried away with herself. I was quite shocked at the power trip she was on.

I think when parents spend more time moaning about how the teacher spoke to their child than they do reflecting on what they actually had to say, kids fail.

People on a power trip are everywhere!

My ds lecturer decided they had to do a project the last 5 days of term. She set it but won't give them the whole tasks and has said she'll let them know each day what they have to do that evening. This means ds cannot crack on this weekend but has to work for 2-3 hours (after being at college 9-4.30 on Monday and Tuesday).

I questioned if ds had got wrong end of the stick (he's autistic and can misunderstand at times) and explained he's a swimmer and trains Monday and Tuesday (and many other!) evenings and this seems an odd thing to do as many also have PT work and also other commitments.

Her reply was "we are a course where we are preparing them for the
professional world"

She had no response to mine of "so you think that teaching children they should work 24/7 and have no family commitments and free time is teaching them how their work life balance should be? Surely in a 9-5 job we shouldn't be teaching our children to work longer for free and encouraging a culture of expectation from employers?"

Fwiw I have no issue with homework and study and accept that's part of studying for your career. I also am very strict with ds balancing this with all his swimming.

But to speak to a class of students the way she did that they should work for 3 hours Monday evening if she demands over everything else is awful. And IMO doesn't encourage the love of studying and is the opposite of motivating!

And also, you might well be more qualified than the teacher, but your son isn’t.

itsgettingweird

She was right. When the child is in work, they will be expected to prioritise their work. When they’re at college/uni, they are expected to prioritise that.

If your son is already wasting time being lazy, I'm really surprised you condone his take another 10 hours a week out to do a job. It will be considerably more disruptive than even that when you factor in travelling time and time to wind down when he finishes. It does sound as if both you and your son need to re-evaluate your priorities.

I say this tentatively but do you think your attitude may have slightly contributed to the laziness of your son? I’m guessing he was in the meeting too? Or have I missed a post where he wasn’t? Because if you come out of a meeting like that saying “come on darling, NO ONE is going to speak to you like that,” then he can smugly walk along knowing Mummy has his back and he doesn’t need to work hard.

It sounds like the teacher just wanted to give him a bloody good kick up the arse (maybe as you obviously weren’t?) and shock him into working hard but it was resented because she’s not as ‘qualified’ as you, apparently.

It sounds like he doesn’t want to work hard, isn’t motivated to achieve abs is costing along not doing anything. A kick up the arse sounds needed.

@flaviaritt

itsgettingweird

She was right. When the child is in work, they will be expected to prioritise their work. When they’re at college/uni, they are expected to prioritise that.

I said I agree they should study.

But to prioritise? No!

It's fitted into having a life. It's important for mental health to have others things beyond your job or study.
No one has the right to demand at 3pm you will go home and spend 3 hours working. People are allowed a job and life outside of work and college and should be fitting in work.

But she also appeared in his college teams tutorial last week half way in and told his tutor she wanted to set the students some work to do and so he had 5 minutes to finish off his tutorial and then she was having them. She then made them work for 3 hours on teams outside of timetabled sessions on a Friday evening.

The students don't respect her because her attitude is disgusting.

And flav I agree in work you prioritise it.

Outside of work and timetabled sessions the time is your own. So any tasks should be set with realistic deadlines and time to do it with respect that outside timetables hours people will have other commitments.

• But to prioritise? No!

It's fitted into having a life. It's important for mental health to have others things beyond your job or study.
No one has the right to demand at 3pm you will go home and spend 3 hours working. People are allowed a job and life outside of work and college and should be fitting in work.*

He will find the real world very different to your fantasy world. He is at college until 3. Most courses require (and he will have been advised of this) some work in the evenings. He can choose not to prioritise it (because you are encouraging him to do so) but the college doesn’t have to accept that.

Outside of work and timetabled sessions the time is your own. So any tasks should be set with realistic deadlines and time to do it with respect that outside timetables hours people will have other commitments.

That will be roughly true in many jobs. But in real life he will find he regularly has tight deadlines, regularly has to do things on short notice, or he will not progress (unless he is privileged to be in a career with a shortage skill set or similar). And the reality is, his college course timetabled hours are not the whole picture when you are in full-time education. It’s not school anymore and some hours in the evenings are expected. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Would this be acceptable in the work place? (Based on your OP I'd categorise it, potentially, as harassment/bullying).

If not, then it's not acceptable in a school either.

I also find the idea that most professionals are going to be able to tell their employer that they can’t rework a proposal or call a client after 3pm because they’ve got swimming... well, it’s unrealistic, isn’t it? You might be able to say you have childcare commitments so you can’t, but you won’t be able to say you’ve committed to footy practice. You’d get fired for not meeting your deadlines in the end.

Op I'm with you completely. In the working world that would really devastate me. my son was moved up a set in science and before long his new teacher was berating him for laziness and being too slow and bad attitude and all sorts. She was the only teacher to complain but after receiving yet another email from her I asked for a meeting. The experience was just like yours but I gave as good as I got. No idea who she thought she was speaking to but I defended my son as being no different to any other teenager she deals with and needing support in this more challenging class. She said she didn't have time for that so we'll wait and see how his exams go and demote him if necessary. Of course he came almost top of the class but she refused to meet me at parents evening and continued to attack him. Op I complained and the school found in my favour in terms of how she makes people feel with her words, not what she was trying to achieve. She's now left. Please log this with the school. This delicate age for your son is one where he could give up completely and legally its fine. And a tough year for students and teenagers, they need encouragement

I must say, I agree with her that your son shouldn't be spending 10 hours a week working. He can acquire life skills any time, at the moment he needs to concentrate on acquiring decent A level results.

What a load of bollocks, plenty of time to revise for A-Levels while having a part time job.

YANBU, OP, some teachers cannot talk to other adults like normal human beings. No way anyone should be getting a 20 minute dressing down, certainly not a parent of an A-level student. I would have left the meeting, she sounds like she was having some kind of mental breakdown.

Apologies for lack of paragraphs

What a load of bollocks, plenty of time to revise for A-Levels while having a part time job.

That depends on the student. Many students do cope with both. Many don’t. And when they are still in full-time education, a parent refusing to listen to the concerns of their child’s teacher is at fault.

If I felt any of DC's teachers were being abusive then there is absolutely no way I would have sat and listened for 20 minutes, and don't know any parent that would.
Add in that you've made a point about how you're more qualified than the teacher to try and add weight to your claims they were abusive, or just to point score, and it leaves me highly doubting that this was a 20 minute abusive tirade.

It sounds like your son is lazy (which you admit), needs kicking to do anything (which you admit) and is spending more time on his part time job than his A Levels.

It's an expected part of A Level courses to work outside your contact hours. All the places I've worked this has been a couple of hours a week per subject, some of which would happen in non-contact periods during the day.

She thought it was her but all support staff can't be wrong

What is it that all support staff right about?

Why does everything negative about teachers have to be dismissed as teacher bashing? I wouldn't have sat and listened to a 20 minute tirade, although I'm not sure this actually happened because parents are not allowed on site at the minute.

I would have told her it's none of her business about DS working though. She doesn't know your financial situation and for all she knows you could need that money to survive.

I worked Saturday and Sunday evenings in a pub and went out Friday until about 11.30pm and often Monday nights- student night in a club so we weren't in bed until 3am, then got up for college the next day. Still time to do my a-levels, and that attitude set me up for life. Any job which requires compromise on a work life balance long term isn't worth it for your mental or physical health. I earn a very good salary in a professional job and don't work all the hours.

At my school there was a Sixth Form Contract. No working more than 8 hours each week term time.

And when they are still in full-time education, a parent refusing to listen to the concerns of their child’s teacher is at fault.

No point having a go at the parent of someone who is almost an adult, unless they are seriously neglectful or abusive, in which case it would be a case for social services. Her son has to decide to pull his socks up, he is almost an adult. And a 20 minute bawl out at him wouldn't help either. Extremely unptofessional.

Any job which requires compromise on a work life balance long term isn't worth it for your mental or physical health. I earn a very good salary in a professional job and don't work all the hours.

But you are spreading a pernicious nonsense if trying to persuade the majority of young people that they can phone in their college work, cite “work-life balance” and still pass with the qualifications you used to get that job. This frustrates me. I expect you are quite clever and you get your work done. That’s fine. But not everyone is going to be able to do that. If the teacher is noticing your part-time approach, something is going wrong. 9-3 with lunch isn’t a full-time job. College is meant to be full-time, including a couple of hours on average a day outside taught hours to complete the work.

No point having a go at the parent of someone who is almost an adult, unless they are seriously neglectful or abusive, in which case it would be a case for social services. Her son has to decide to pull his socks up, he is almost an adult.

Then why can’t he have the meeting in his own? You can’t have it both ways. Either he needs his mummy to come in and defend him to his teacher (in which case he’s a child and she is the responsible adult), or he doesn’t, in which case he should make his own case to the teacher and accept the consequences - as an adult would have to.

Which is it?

At my school there was a Sixth Form Contract. No working more than 8 hours each week term time.

That’s nice. Do you think he’s doing that?