Are people right to be worried about the vaccine?

[CutToChase]

I had a "good tempered" argument with DP last night. He says theres no way hes putting something in his body that hasnt undergone all the checks and tests and says that normally vaccines take 20 years to approve.

I think that when I have a choice between a known negative (covid) and an unknown (vaccine) I will always take the unknown.

In response he says people have forgotten a minuscule proportion of people actually suffer from covid. He says this is all about money (however he is a conspiracy theorist...)

What do you think about the vaccine and the speed of it?

Also vote:
YABU = I will not be getting the vaccine
YANBU = I will be getting the vaccine

It HAS gone through all the safety checks a new medicine would do. The reasons medical trials take so long (definitely nowhere near 20 years though) is because you have to apply for funding, wait for approvals to signed off, get in the queue and recruit participants. This isn’t the case this time it has been, pushed to the front of every pile of paper work, primed with funding and there have been thousands of people ready to volunteer. People feel uncertain because as it’s new you can’t say “oh well it’s been going for 10 years and everything is fine”. There isn’t anything new in this vaccine accept for the fact it’s using mRNA which is a relatively novel approach and it seems to have created a bunch on nonsensical conspiracy theorists spouting incorrect science on social media. The most hypocritical aspect is they fail to acknowledge this is is the same mRNA that ends up in our cells DURING INFECTION WITH COVID. But apparently it won’t do all the terrible things they are saying it will in vaccine form in that situation.

There are plenty of reasons as to why the vaccine has been so quick and that comes down to time waiting for approval; money to continue decolping and researching; enough volunteers reasily waiting to do their bit and lastly, with the Pfizer vaccine the MHRA were looking at the data at each stage rather than waiting for the data in it’s entirity at the end of the development. This enabled scientists to fast track the approval.

Also, the Oxford vaccine has actually been developped for the last 10 years. Although Covid wasn’t a thing then they were putting in place the foundations to produce a vaccine for any unknown virus which is why this vaccine include a strain of the virus in it. It was created to do just that.

Yeah absolutely. We know so much about coronavirus, what it does, who will be affected, it's long term effects... It makes far more sense to worry about a partial derivative of a virus that has been neutered and tested than about the virus itself.

A new vaccine usually takes around 10 or even 15 to years produce but we have never had so many vaccine producers working on one vaccine

I think it’s perfectly understandable that people are sceptical they should ask questions, read up on information but science led information not some conspiracy theory on social media

It’s been a hugely anxious time with lots of uncertainty it’s hardly surprising many people are also anxious this vaccine

Thete was a very good piece on BBC yesterday too.

I think your husband is right, certainly in my nurses training, the regulation of medicine is something we learnt a lot about, this vaccine certainly has been rushed and it is worrying how they got emergency approval with so little data. I for one will not be having it and I am in the ECV group.

I prefer not to take medicines if I don't have to. This year I've already taken two vaccines (anti tetanus and anti tick encephalitis, forgot the proper name), but the anti tetanus was overdue and I was visiting an area infested with ticks. Anyway, don't see much point in having this new vaccine since I've already had covid19 (and has totally fine, as the majority of people).

@Zippy1510

You're forgetting about the observation for longer term effects and other aspects like how long people are protected for. So while these vaccines may be safe, there are other complications that are often ironed out with more conventional vaccine trials.

And let's not forget, especially on a forum full of mothers. The vaccine won't be available for pregnant women or breastfeeding mothers. At least that's the current stance, although will be changing soon hopefully.

This is so tiresome and depressing.

I naively though that lack of direct experience with infectious diseases killing and incapacitating thousands/millions of people was a major contributing factor behind people’s resistance to vaccination (e.g. smallpox , diphtheria, polio, cholera, typhoid, measles etc).

Turns out that doesn’t seem to be the case. Even though we now have a new infectious disease killing and incapacitating thousands/millions of people – the same resistance/reluctance is there.

Where would we be if in the last century people had insisted on “doing their own research” and watching some Youtube videos before getting their smallpox vaccination?

Are the same people “doing their own research” on the value of dexamethasone, CPAP and prone positioning in case they need to be admitted to intensive care???

But it has gone through all the same safety checks as every other vaccine. So there isn't an argument.

‘The virus is terrible for a very small percentage of the population but mostly harmless to the rest. The figures clearly show this.’

No, you’re conflating non-lethal with harmless.
If you’re young and healthy covid is extremely unlikely to kill you. The chances of it leaving you with, for instance, impaired breathing and fatigue months later are much higher.

Are the same people “doing their own research” on the value of dexamethasone, CPAP and prone positioning in case they need to be admitted to intensive care???

Probably not, but they can. And they can decline those treatments if they want to.

No

AI has helped

@flaviaritt

Are the same people “doing their own research” on the value of dexamethasone, CPAP and prone positioning in case they need to be admitted to intensive care???

Probably not, but they can. And they can decline those treatments if they want to.

Well you can decline CPAP - but once you're unconscious in ITU you're not going to be able to decline dexamethasone or prone positioning.

And you can be sure the staff will not be calling the relatives to ask if they have "done their own research" before giving the dexamethasone and rolling them on their front.

So, for the people who don’t think it’s taken long enough and would prefer to wait, exactly what do you think should happen? That we all social distance and stop going out for the next ten years?

For the poster who says “I pump enough stuff into my body,” presumably you have an illness which means you have to take medication and it’s likely that said illness makes you more susceptible to the effects of COVID?

To the rest, you do realise that the more people who decline this vaccine, the longer we will have restrictions, and that if vulnerable people who cannot have the vaccine catch COVID you are partly to blame?

It’s no different to parents who don’t give their DC MMR, if other children catch measles then the parents of those unvaccinated through choice children are to blame. The same applies to COVID.

I don’t actually believe that a 3rd will decline when it comes to it. I think that as the vaccination progresses people will be less and less concerned about it, and given the majority will be in the Latter groups they have some time to hear about the lack of reactions.

The media need to keep their mouthed shut at this point though, inevitably there will always be someone who will react, because that is the nature of the beast, but the media need to not jump on that as a reason to start suggesting that the vaccine is unsafe, such as they did when that girl died after having the HPV vaccine, even when it turned out she had an underlying condition she didn’t know about, that was reported as an afterthought, and by then the panic had been spread, and the uptake reduced after that.

I am in around group6 of the list, and when it comes to my turn I shall be up there. And I pump quite enough stuff into my body as well as it goes. I have been told though that if I catch COVID I will likely not survive it, so I’ll take my chances with a vaccine ta very much.

I've listened to a number of experts on TV who rightly advise that there's no telling what the side effects or long term issues may be

Not sure who you've been listening to, but I don't really think they can claim to be experts if that is what they are saying. This is not a brand new vaccine, it is based on established vaccines whose side effects and long terms issues we already know. And we know enough now about the side effects and long-term issues of coronavirus to know which is preferable.

Well you can decline CPAP - but once you're unconscious in ITU you're not going to be able to decline dexamethasone or prone positioning.

You can say beforehand that you don’t want those treatments. People don’t have to accept medical care, including vaccines. By law.

I think that when I have a choice between a known negative (covid) and an unknown (vaccine) I will always take the unknown.

I will always take the known unless it is certain death or disability. I dont like unknowns.

The annoying this is that people are so vile about those who are concerned about it. Its everyone's right to decide what to do with their own body. And it's just plain stupid to think its 100% safe, there are always risks.

Doctors and scientists have been shown to make mistakes. There was a lot of pressure to get this out there, saving lives, yes, but particularly financial. I dont trust that to be a safe environment for a product to be born in that will be injected into my body.

@BethlehemIsInTier1

I think your husband is right, certainly in my nurses training, the regulation of medicine is something we learnt a lot about, this vaccine certainly has been rushed and it is worrying how they got emergency approval with so little data. I for one will not be having it and I am in the ECV group.

It is rather concerning that your course was so inaccurate on what goes in to the testing of a new product, and why expediting the process (unlimited funding, no delays in waiting for committees to meet, but extra ones scheduled specifically to consider without delay), people queuing up to be in trials, rather than months of recruitment etc) is not the same as 'rushing' (a term which implies - possibly inadvertently - that corners have been cut, when it is perfectly clear that no such thing has happened)

The obstacles removed were administrative, and in no way related to the stringency of the actual trials themselves.

But I'm not allowed it anyway because I'm pregnant. And wont be allowed it until I stop breastfeeding.

@BethlehemIsInTier1

I think your husband is right, certainly in my nurses training, the regulation of medicine is something we learnt a lot about, this vaccine certainly has been rushed and it is worrying how they got emergency approval with so little data. I for one will not be having it and I am in the ECV group.

Worrying that a nurse would come up with something like this. This is absolutely not a case where they have "so little data". Not only is the vaccine based on known, tried and tested ones, but the vaccine developers have had access to unprecedented facilities and subjects for testing.

@BethlehemIsInTier1, would you really prefer risking Covid to having the vaccine?

Every year the strains of flu in southern hemisphere are used to make up the flu vaccine used in northern hemisphere. That's like 3-6m of testing and development, max, right?

I'm very worried that too many vulnerable people won't get the 'rona jab & we'll all be screwed by that situation.

It’s no different to parents who don’t give their DC MMR, if other children catch measles then the parents of those unvaccinated through choice children are to blame. The same applies to COVID.

Ethically, that is not consistent with our right to choose medical treatments for ourselves. A virus has its own behaviours and will progress freely through an unvaccinated population. You have a choice to vaccinate yourself. You have a choice to avoid the unvaccinated. You don’t have a choice about what others do. It is not their fault if you get ill because you knowingly expose yourself to people who - for whatever reason - have declined a medical treatment.

I will always take the known unless it is certain death or disability. I dont like unknowns

But Covid is no more of a "known" than the vaccine is. What you do know is that the chances of negative effects from Covid are way, way higher than the chances of negative effects from vaccine.

@whiterabnitsweets - Not knowing how long immunological memory last for isn’t a reason not to have it though. At best it gives you lasting protection and at worst it’s short lived. Both of those situations are better than having no protection for any period of time.