Are people right to be worried about the vaccine?

[CutToChase]

I had a "good tempered" argument with DP last night. He says theres no way hes putting something in his body that hasnt undergone all the checks and tests and says that normally vaccines take 20 years to approve.

I think that when I have a choice between a known negative (covid) and an unknown (vaccine) I will always take the unknown.

In response he says people have forgotten a minuscule proportion of people actually suffer from covid. He says this is all about money (however he is a conspiracy theorist...)

What do you think about the vaccine and the speed of it?

Also vote:
YABU = I will not be getting the vaccine
YANBU = I will be getting the vaccine

if 1/3rd of people refuse the vaccine then there will continue to be deaths and sadly many of them won't be the idiots who think vaccines are made by mad scientists or sent by demons. If the only people paying the price were the stupid people I'd see it as evolution in action and look forward to a general improvement in the human race.

@flaviaritt

I stand by what I said, that not getting vaccinated is wrong. Not getting vaccinated makes you a bad person. I am sorry, but sometimes the truth needs to be told. Nothing you have said goes any way towards gainsaying this.

And nothing you have said makes this the case either. It is purely your subjective opinion. The law says you are wrong, and people have the right to make this decision for themselves. So bugger your emotional blackmail, and I will continue to point out to those who might not be aware of it, that it has no legal or ethical force beyond your own opinion. For as long as it takes.

You are right to say I did not make the case. I thought the case already clear. It is fairly straightforward. Anyone not getting vaccinated possibly causes harm to others in that (1) low take-up rates militate against adequate R-rate reduction, (2) those unprotected by the vaccine thereby are at greater risk of sickness and death.

It is such possibility of harm, allied to the relatively minor inconvenience of being vaccinated, that entails the wrong in omitting to be vaccinated. (All other things equal, etc., etc.) This is not a difficult moral calculation at all. Some people seem not to understand it, though.

As for your ' purely subjective ', this is just a muddle. To begin to see why, ask yourself whether or not it is purely your subjective opinion that this is purely my subjective opinion, or whether you claim it is true that it is purely my subjective opinion.

Moral relativism like this ('purely subjective', stuff like that) is quite common. When it is clear that such relativism amounts to a moral position in its own right as here with you it is self-defeating; if it is true, it is false and vice versa. See?

But anyway, after this little disagreement/explication, the important point bears repeating/emphasising, I think: Not getting vaccinated is wrong. Not getting vaccinated makes you a bad person. I am sorry, but sometimes the truth needs to be told.

[-- The truth, note: whether or not it is also anyone's opinion is beside the point.]

9toenails

No. The harm is not caused by the person choosing to not to be vaccinated exercising their legal and moral right. It is caused by the virus itself. One person is not responsible for what the virus does to another person. If you don’t want to take the risk of catching it, you have every right to avoid contact with others, and that is where your rights end.

After that, with your blather about subjectivity, your post descends into nonsense.

The straightforward fact of this matter is that people have a legal right to decide for themselves what to put into their body. That right is supported by the ethical position (correct in my view) that they own their body and have the right to prioritise its needs before the needs of others. They are not wrong to do so, or bad people. That’s tripe. They are simply people exercising their legal and moral rights over themselves. In your attempt to designate your opinion as truth, you are the only one overreaching here, and claiming moral rights over the bodies of others.

You don’t have ‘em. Sorry it bothers you.

Oh well, flaviaritt, I tried. I will have one last go.

' The straightforward fact of this matter is ... , ' you say. But, it seems, you also think it all just a matter of purely subjective opinion, no? Do you see any possible difficulties with aligning these assertions?

' blather '. Hmm. Have the last word if you like.

9toenails

We have different subjective opinions about the morality of this situation. But the legal aspect of it is a straightforward fact, yes. You have no rights over the bodies of others. They have the right to make this decision for themselves. I don’t care whether you think it is ‘truth’ that they are bad people. I think you’re a bad person in your eagerness to bully and emotionally blackmail people into acting in your interests. 🤷🏻‍♀️

We have different subjective opinions about the morality of this situation. But the legal aspect of it is a straightforward fact, yes. You have no rights over the bodies of others. They have the right to make this decision for themselves. I don’t care whether you think it is ‘truth’ that they are bad people. I think you’re a bad person in your eagerness to bully and emotionally blackmail people into acting in your interests. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Agree

I wonder how many anti-vaxxers will change their minds if a vaccination certificate becomes essential for travel.

I wonder how many anti-vaxxers will change their minds if a vaccination certificate becomes essential for travel

Other countries haven't even approved any vacancies yet. By the time they do, we will have enough data to see that it's safe (or not).

For those saying they will wait until there is enough safety data. There is already enough. That’s why there were trials. That’s why it’s been approved by both MRHA and FDA.

@MagnoliaXYZ

I've had the vaccine already, had my first dose Tuesday and have an appointment booked for my second. No hesitation at all in getting it

Who offered you it? Just out of interest was it through your work?

I've been offfered to have it this Tuesday. I genuinely don't know what to do.

HibouMilou - the triles where rushed - that's a fact. Plus there are restrictions as to who can take part in medical trials. (And that's not your 90 year old granny. )
So being sceptical is not a bad thing. We really need more data, all we do know is that's reducing covid-19 symptoms.

(I'm not anti vaccinations, far from it. But I somehow would like to know a bit more about the unknowns like side effects or how long it lasts or if I still can pass it on, ... )

hashbrown Easy. Accept. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

the triles where rushed - that's a fact

The trials were not rushed.

@hashbrownsandwich

I've been offfered to have it this Tuesday. I genuinely don't know what to do.

I would bite your hand off. You are very fortunate.

‘Today 18:26 Ylvamoon

HibouMilou - the triles where rushed - that's a fact.’

Why don’t you tell us exactly which stages were rushed and how long the time taken compares with those stages in usual vaccine trials?

I got the vaccine on Tuesday. Very excited. It's the right thing, the moral thing to do.

the triles where rushed - that's a fact
Please show us your source for this gem of a sentence. Where did you hear this? Mumsnet? Facebook? YouTube?
If it was the Lancet or an equivalent medical journal, or you are a leading scientist working for Pfizer, then you might have some credibility in my eye. Otherwise please don't post things that are untrue on this thread

Triles? I despair.

I wonder how many anti-vaxxers will change their minds if a vaccination certificate becomes essential for travel.

I won't change my mind. I'm not prepared to take the vaccine that's currently on offer.

Airlines are already putting together policies around compulsory vaccination. They generally require a covid specific certificate which often requires a test result.
It varies from airline to airline and depends if the person flying is a citizen flying "home", or a "foreigner" flying on business.
Many countries have compulsory quarantine on arrival in government facilities.
Vaccination certificates will be required once the vaccine is widely available.

Trials were quicker than usual, but not rushed in terms of necessary rigour. Trials had more money thrown at them and many scientists working around the clock to achieve good, safe vaccines. This is because it’s such an important worldwide issue. There is enough safety data. If there was not, it would not have received approval through a highly rigorous process. Regulatory bodies exist for this purpose. Please don’t turn the offer down of protecting yourself and others.

I’ve had the first dose of Pfizer vaccine and am in a clinically vulnerable group myself. I’m a senior medic with research experience and qualifications. I don’t know what can be done about the lack of trust that exists. It is a shame that so many believe that experts don’t have public health interests at the top of their agendas.
Hippocratic oath is “do no harm”.

I can see why people are concerned, however, as has already been stated, its basis was already in development if not already developed - Covid 19 might be new, but Corona viruses aren't and it has been tested.

I actually think the fact it doesn't actually stop the virus being transmitted takes a moral element out of the equation. Don't feel comfortable with the vaccine, don't have it! It's only yourself you are potentially putting at risk- people are free to make their own risk assessments.

‘I actually think the fact it doesn't actually stop the virus being transmitted‘

This isn’t a fact.
The fact is we don’t yet know what effect if any it will have on spread.

I'm 55. I've had many good years and lots of fun without the threat of this virus hanging over me. I'm going to have it not just for me but all the young people that need to enjoy life without this virus always being around. I feel duty bound to help stamp this virus out.

Amen to that sister