EU blackmailing the UK

[houseinthesnow]

So it comes to pass. The EU have decided unless we agree to their unreasonable demands they will halt all travel, including air and road travel whilst still fishing in our waters apparently!

It is nothing short of piracy.

The true nature of the EU has been exposed for some time, hence our departure - but now no one can be any doubt just to the levels they will sink to.
The EU have no interest in trade relations, nor cooperation, they only seek control and power. The trading relations is and was always, window dressing to create a superstate - and it seems they are now not afraid to inflict as much damage as possible to stop a member leaving.
Even the most passionate remainer will now see how deeply disturbing this behaviour actually is.

One could argue it is an act of war in fact.

It should be treated as such.

I will happily eat beans to the end of my days than be blackmailed by the EU. We all knew it would get nasty at the end, but who they knew they were capable of this. I suppose we can't be that surprised given the past. The gloves are off now for sure - and that goes both ways we should remind them.

Hard hats on.

@Daphnise

In case posters here don't realise, we have already left the EU.

Our time in it was a mere blip.

Those who wanted to stay had their chance, and lost.

The Country will survive, but not be helped by all this bitter moaning.

Yes I am aware. We are still in transition though.

I'd kind of like to know what the plan for three weeks time is though.

Not sure thats particularly unreasonable...

In case posters here don't realise, we have already left the EU.

In case you don’t realise, we’re in the transition period, which ends on 31 December 2020.

'the country will survive'

Woohoo! Survival! We'll survive! Oh well, I have no idea what anyone's worrying about then, now we know we'll 'survive'. Yay. Survival.

OP, fully expected that response. Very unsurprising. Just vague rubbishing of ideas and concepts that you could not have fully read, digested and thought on in the time between me posting the link and your response.

As usually an kneejerk emotional response designed to try and discredit without any reall substance. Classic brexiter stance.

However, as others have said, it's all in the past and we are leaving. However I have no reason to use my positive energy to support an idea that I fundamentally disagree with. Rather I will support the inevitable movement to rejoin the EU as I believe it is in our best interests. This is my democratic right.

Yes quite - we have 'left' but we have not yet left. Whole different story.

@FastMovingLuxuryGoods

'the country will survive'

Woohoo! Survival! We'll survive! Oh well, I have no idea what anyone's worrying about then, now we know we'll 'survive'. Yay. Survival.

The ultimate Dunkirk response.

'Doing without' is the very definition of poverty. If you're fine with families going without homes, food, access to feminine hygiene products then that tells us all we need to know.'
But poverty definition in UK is not actual poverty.
UK definition:
Secondly, they’re using a kind of relative poverty measure, comparing families across the UK. This means they’ve chosen to compare everyone to an “average” family in terms of the resources they have available to them, and those who have the least by comparison are defined as in poverty.
They effectively place all families in the UK in a line, from those with the most resources to those with the least. The family in the middle is the “median family”. Any family that has 54% or less of what that median family has is defined as being in poverty.

The UN definition:
The definition used by a number of international organisations (such as the UN and the World Bank) is that you cannot afford the basic needs of life—food, clothing, shelter and so on.

THE UN definition is actual poverty. The UK definition is "worst of than...."

So before you start talking about poverty and % of ppl in poverty check what you mean. Real life poverty is much smaller!

I think it's all too late now. If people have buyer's remorse about their vote either way then it's tough.
Would people support rejoining if it meant adopting the Euro, Schengen, ever closer union etc? I'm not sure that would be an easy sell for at least a generation. That's if the EU would have us back!

Hey OP, any further thoughts on GFA and its place in the Brexit debate?

For people that ‘won’ there seems to be an awful lot of complaining, its going swimmingly isn’t it? I’d just be sat back and reaping the rewards of my ‘win’

Loving your posts again zilla

And I will let you all into a secret now....

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE Europe.

Thats right! Every last one, of them, including the French with the exception of Macron perhaps. I love the place, the people, the culture. All of it! BUT, that is not the same as loving the EU Commission.

I despise what the EU Commission has done to what started out as a peace project encouraging trade and friendship.
I despise their gravy trains of fat cats and missing billions, I despise their petty laws and overarching, overbearing control - meddling in every nation. I can't stand the sluggish and drawn out back patting, the nepotism, the corruption, the idea that Brussels is where the decisions are made, when we ALL know it is Berlin calling the shots.
I totally despised the way they treated Greece, and can only hope and pray the same does not happen to Italy and Spain in the coming months.

I will tell you that I adore Europe, and I always will, but the commission and the stupid vanity project they have set up to cover what they are really doing is really despicable. They have corrupted and ruined what would have been an amazing collaboration of like minded nations, and turned it into an ugly, authoritative superstate that no longer functions for the people of EUROPE. It is rotten to its core.

We tried to change it from the inside, we really did. No chance. NADA.

It is beyond me that you can not see this, even now.

I am still waiting for the remainer list........I am getting tired and hungry can someone fast track it please.

The entitlement of the moaning Brexiteer in the face of the EU not supplying endless cake. There we have it.

'The ultimate Dunkirk response'

And the hyperbole continues. Honestly you must be exhausted. Look, as Johnson says we will thrive with or without a trade deal. The EU are just making it for more difficult for all parties concerned. Try a bit of positive thought instead of all this doom and gloom and teeth gnashing.

@houseinthesnow

And I will let you all into a secret now....

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE Europe.

Thats right! Every last one, of them, including the French with the exception of Macron perhaps. I love the place, the people, the culture. All of it! BUT, that is not the same as loving the EU Commission.

I despise what the EU Commission has done to what started out as a peace project encouraging trade and friendship.
I despise their gravy trains of fat cats and missing billions, I despise their petty laws and overarching, overbearing control - meddling in every nation. I can't stand the sluggish and drawn out back patting, the nepotism, the corruption, the idea that Brussels is where the decisions are made, when we ALL know it is Berlin calling the shots.
I totally despised the way they treated Greece, and can only hope and pray the same does not happen to Italy and Spain in the coming months.

I will tell you that I adore Europe, and I always will, but the commission and the stupid vanity project they have set up to cover what they are really doing is really despicable. They have corrupted and ruined what would have been an amazing collaboration of like minded nations, and turned it into an ugly, authoritative superstate that no longer functions for the people of EUROPE. It is rotten to its core.

We tried to change it from the inside, we really did. No chance. NADA.

It is beyond me that you can not see this, even now.

How does this differ from giving the power that the EC had to the Tory Party?

Sorry I'm struggling with understanding how this improves anything for anyone. We instead now just have other fat cats sitting around having dinners with the EC about deals they have no intention of making.

I have skimmed sorry if this has been covered.

What I don't understand is why only import/export are looked at, and not the money we had to pay to be a member every year. Won't this have some impact especially on the poorer countries in the EU?

I know we also got funding from the EU, but how do those figures truly compare? Did we really take out more than we put into the EU?

Daphnise “ The Country will survive, but not be helped by all this bitter moaning.”

The only people I hear moaning are those who voted Leave, with their incessant “The EU are being meanies ... not letting us have all the benefits of the single market without any of the responsibilities... demanding access to our fishing waters (that, ahem, we sold to French fishermen)... expecting us to abide by international peace agreements... not letting us have freedom of movement to go on holiday in Spain just because we don’t want any of them here... turning Kent into a lorry park all because they don’t want us to dump a load of cut-price chlorinated chicken on them...Remoaners are why it’s not a success, if they only joined in with our magical thinking, Uri Geller and us could bend reality with the power of positive thinking”.

OP... benefits of the EU? Pretty much all our environmental and employment standards! Anyone seen today the NFU are lobbying to reverse the ban on neonicotinoids after 1st Jan? Or the government quietly changing the laws on the maximum hours lorry drivers can work in a shift... I’m sure it’s all going to sunlit uplands for agriculture when we have no natural pollinators. All bright futures when there are motorway pile ups from overtired lorry drivers.

Fucks sake.

@MaxNormal

I am still waiting for the remainer list........I am getting tired and hungry can someone fast track it please.

The entitlement of the moaning Brexiteer in the face of the EU not supplying endless cake. There we have it.

Ping.

There's that microwave meal that for some reason you put in the oven to slow cook.

Yes we know you love Europe/France, you mentioned it in your other thread.

Now, how about answering the question on GFA?

Coo-eee OP!

GFA? Any thoughts?

@FastMovingLuxuryGoods

Coo-eee OP!

GFA? Any thoughts?

tumbleweed

Look, as Johnson says we will thrive with or without a trade deal

Johnson has never told in the truth in his life if he could help it. If you're pinning your hopes for the future on any utterance from him, you're going to be dreadfully disappointed.

OP we didn't really try though did we? Thatcher basically arranged a partial refund to step us out from the inner circle and we spectacularly failed to build relationships with other Northern European nations that shared our view that economic cooperation was more important than political cooperation. David Cameron should have had the Netherlands and Sweden amongst his allies but his hubris meant he completely ignored them.

Tory Euroscepticism had always prevented the UK from fully participating in the EU as a member. This is why the Germans call us 'the island'.

1) Control over immigration
Majority immigration to the UK in the past years has been from outside the EU. We've always had control over that.

2) Our welfare system has been abused for years
Yes it has by people from the UK, but the cost compared to abuse of the Tax system is miniscule. Nothing to do with the EU, down to UK government.

3) Many markets has been flooded with cheap labour.
People have come here to do jobs UK population unwilling to do. Down to UK government.

4) The laws in this country will be made in this country again, we have thousands and thousands of laws that have been passed to us from the EU.
All of which we could have vetoed, unlike the WTO rules we will be forced to follow.

5) Now when someone commits a serious crime in our country they will be deported, currently they can just return.
Their return has always been under the control of the UK government.

6) I see the UK as a global country, with a rich history of relationships with the whole world.
You are right, it was that under the EU.

7) Politically we were always going to have to leave anyway.
Can you give me this weekends lottery numbers?

8) Many companies will thrive without the EU red tape strangling creativity.
See Q7. A few examples of creativity that have been strangled would be useful.

9) We can better allies in the longer term with countries in Europe not in the institution
Such as? Russia?

10) Your children and mine will inherit a country they can actually govern, rather than one that is cowering under the EU commission's rules
We can cower under US & Chinese rules.

11) The incredible amount of money we were paying in just to be part of the EU is eyewatering, and getting larger and larger.
We have wasted more money on Brexit than we ever spent on the EU

12) I do think we will prosper, and in the long term once we are over covid I see a greener, cleaner and more democratically accountable future ahead of us.
As we could in the EU, this is just opinion.

Try a bit of positive thought

Again this puzzling exhortation? How will it help?

Can I say there is nothing wrong with Dunkirk, and I am proud of the people that fought and died for your freedom.

I am starving, so I must go now and eat those beans

If anyone can cobble together a proper list for remain, then please do while I pour the wine. Please don't link fluffy, woolly passages about the climate and travelling for work, the EU have done SFA for the climate, and even less for jobs and investment.

I wish you all a happy Friday evening