EU blackmailing the UK

[houseinthesnow]

So it comes to pass. The EU have decided unless we agree to their unreasonable demands they will halt all travel, including air and road travel whilst still fishing in our waters apparently!

It is nothing short of piracy.

The true nature of the EU has been exposed for some time, hence our departure - but now no one can be any doubt just to the levels they will sink to.
The EU have no interest in trade relations, nor cooperation, they only seek control and power. The trading relations is and was always, window dressing to create a superstate - and it seems they are now not afraid to inflict as much damage as possible to stop a member leaving.
Even the most passionate remainer will now see how deeply disturbing this behaviour actually is.

One could argue it is an act of war in fact.

It should be treated as such.

I will happily eat beans to the end of my days than be blackmailed by the EU. We all knew it would get nasty at the end, but who they knew they were capable of this. I suppose we can't be that surprised given the past. The gloves are off now for sure - and that goes both ways we should remind them.

Hard hats on.

Oh bullshit, how on earth are 27 Countries blackmailing us, never have I read such unadulterated rubbish

Act of war my arse please don't be silly!

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'If you didn't pay attention, go away and google it or use the open search facility on MN'

Erm, I'm not quite sure who tf you think you are but I'll do as I please thanks.

'Where's the mutual benefit if we aren't reciprocating? That's individual gain. It's not rocket science.'

We sell to them they sell to us. That sounds reciprocal to me.

Translation: I don't want to read something long and boring. Cos its long and boring and I want everyone else to do the hard work whilst I come up with 'original' questions like 'but Norway?' as if I'm somehow coming up with a relevalation as to why the EU are so big and mean.

Translation: I don't understand that trade deals are rarely balanced in power. They always favour the bigger, richer partner and the dynamic relationship in them reflects this pattern. Hence the trend around the world for forming trade blocs - like in Africa and the Pacific Partnership - to aid smaller, less well off nations. And the UK were pretty stupid or 'courageous' as the Australia quoted above remarked to leave a trade block at the exact time there is a rise in trading blocs around the world.

And thats the problem with Brexit in its entirity really.

We are a medium sized nation who thinks we have more influence than a group of medium sized nations who formed a bloc to protect themselves from the economic might of US / Soviet Union / China.

@MushMonster

They will reach an agreement. It is mutually benefitial and the only way forward. It may not happen by the 31st December though..... Boris does his moves, so do the EU, right, they can fight for it too, it is their future too. It is the companies who deal between UK and the EU who are unfairly left in limbo, alongside UK citizens. Still noone knwos how we have to prepare, but prepare we must. All clear......

No. Its the UK and ots citizens left in limbo. The EU will go along on their merry way. They don't need the UK. You don't export enough to the EU to dictate trade deals. Last year the UK had a 79 billion dollar trade deficit with the EU in 2019. The UK is going to have to take what they can get and it won't be much. Blame yourselves and your goverment. Not the EU

A different arrangement, free trade without free movement. Why not? I couldn't give a rat's ass about 'pillars' and what has always happened before, times change and free trade without free movement should not be the hand wringing drama some of you are making it out to be.

Hate to be the barer of bad news, but its not about you.

Its about the UK Government of the Time and the Current UK Government and the EU who all DO give rat's asses about these things.

BTW it's perfectly clear you're just here to goad, GetOffYourHighHorse.

I suppose there's an argument that readers are learning something from all the detailed explanations, both the patient and the justifiably frustrated, so they're worth it in that sense.

You clearly aren't though, so it's a waste of time taking you seriously.

Oh, and I don't give a rat's arse how you voted.

Still, all keeps the thread title blaming the EU in active, doesn't it? Which was the point of the thread...

Yes but we aren't in the EU so surely this can and should be changed as it would be of mutual benefit.

How do you lot cope with change in general, it must be terrible expecting things to stay the same for ever because that's the rules.

Well, firstly, it violates the fundamental, founding principles of the EU.

Secondly, I should have mentioned there are other complicating factors, which are that in order to get free trade, you also need to contribute to the budget and comply with at least some of the laws. We refused to do that either. Our basic position was that we don’t want to pay, we don’t want to accept any of your laws, we don’t want any of your people - but we do want unfettered access to your market, please.

Thirdly, it wouldn’t really be mutual benefit. It would benefit us far more than the EU. Yes, the EU exports some goods and services to us, but for obvious reasons they still come off far better from the separation.

I couldn't give a rat's ass about 'pillars' and what has always happened before, times change and free trade without free movement should not be the hand wringing drama some of you are making it out to be.

When people say that free movement of labour is a key pillar of the EU, they are describing the position of the EU, not their own opinion. Whether or not you think posters on MN are 'hand wringing' is beside the point.

*EFTA, not EEA... apologies.

I think the mindset that GetOff conveys is perhaps an example of why the UK is so rubbish at trade negotiations... Yes, EU, you have international legal trade agreements with dozens and dozens of other countries abiding by similar rules, but we expect you to write completely new ones just for us... There are 350 million of them and 64 million of us to buy and sell goods. Just why would fewer people have greater bargaining power???

Jesus. A different arrangement, free trade without free movement. Why not? I couldn't give a rat's ass about 'pillars' and what has always happened before, times change and free trade without free movement should not be the hand wringing drama some of you are making it out to be.

450 million people in the EU, and their democratically elected representatives, likewise don't give a rat's ass what you think. Freedom of movement is one of the four pillars, and since it is their Union and one of their fundamental rules, they are not going to change it just because Johnson, Gove and their backers demand that they should.

Times have indeed changed. Under the cover of Brexit, a fairly stable country has been taken over by a cabal of right-wing zealots who want to strip the UK citizens, consumers and employees of their rights (Patel is currently promoting a Singapore-style Bill that will make demonstrations and free assembly a criminal offence) and want to 'unchain' the country from all of the agreements and obligations that come with being part of a global economy and a global society.

@AuldAlliance

I look forward to the French fishermen, farmers and vintners to poverty - form suggests they'll adopy Guy Fawkes day with Macron as the guy.

I'm struggling to understand why you might think that these French professionals would blame Macron (currently trying to defend their rights) for the ill effects of a referendum he had nothing to do with and has clearly said was based on lies.

Im trying to think why she thinks they will go into poverty. France has very strong trade deals with the EU and the US, Canada. They will be fine. The US will end up paying higher gas prices depending on the GFA but ehh it happens

@PerkingFaintly

BTW it's perfectly clear you're just here to goad, GetOffYourHighHorse.

I suppose there's an argument that readers are learning something from all the detailed explanations, both the patient and the justifiably frustrated, so they're worth it in that sense.

You clearly aren't though, so it's a waste of time taking you seriously.

Oh, and I don't give a rat's arse how you voted.

See I think I'm at the moment where I don't think that there are any geniunely curious individuals on the subject.

There are the entrenched and the indifferent. And thats it.

We saw what Taiwan (7 deaths in a country of 51m, many in densely populated Teipei) was doing in December when they first appreciated that this was SARS + and ignored it. They never had a lockdown, their economy is booming and all thanks to an effective public health response. It was never rocket science, just effective planning and logistics.

Something Priti Patel could introduce in case there's a next time;

"Since 2004, Taiwan’s citizens have been given a smart card under the government-run National Health Insurance system to demonstrate their eligibility for healthcare access. Over the years more health data has been added to the card, such as a person’s prescription history. This card was central to a mask rationing system spearheaded by digital minister Tang early in the pandemic, which ensured that all Taiwan’s citizens had access to an allocated quota. When people swiped their card at a pharmacy or convenience store, they were given the masks."

@tinatsarina

the world is bigger than the EU there are other countries out there

For holiday purposes, that are considerably further away and who will demand visas.

For business purposes, are considerably further away and will demand reciprocity. Visas for trade with India, for example?

A different arrangement, free trade without free movement. Why not? I couldn't give a rat's ass about 'pillars' and what has always happened before, times change and free trade without free movement should not be the hand wringing drama some of you are making it out to be

It's an anology that's been used before, but you really do sound like a man who wants a divorce but can't understand why he can't still have sex with his wife.
Free trade goes with free movement. You don't get one without the other, that's just how it is. Like you don't get the sex without staying in the marriage. Or it's like quitting your job and still wanting to get paid.

You (and many others, including in goverment) seem unable to grasp that you can't just have whatever you want. It doesn't work that way.

Plus you were offered lots of different deals and you turned all of the down. You could have been another Norway, but no. Your choice.

I think the mindset that GetOff conveys is perhaps an example of why the UK is so rubbish at trade negotiations... Yes, EU, you have international legal trade agreements with dozens and dozens of other countries abiding by similar rules, but we expect you to write completely new ones just for us... There are 350 million of them and 64 million of us to buy and sell goods. Just why would fewer people have greater bargaining power???

Unfortunately, its mindset that will also struggle with the reality of the WTO.

I couldn't give a rat's ass about 'pillars' and what has always happened before

Utterly irrelevant.

The 27 countries of the EU do give a rat's ass about it and it is them we are negotiating with.

Your sense of exceptionalism is quite staggering, I've got to say. We're really not that special.

And if we are talking about arrogant politicians...

My vote goes to JRM blaming Grenfell victims for their deaths or Rober Jenrick overturning council planning decisions. Plus making sure that the decision was pushed through a day before Desmond would have had to cough up £45m on his £1b redevelopment to help pay for wider council infrastructure.

Not like local councils might not find that money useful now... Oh no, it's only EU politicians that could possibly be arrogant

You're being ridiculous, UK want to be a 3rd country, EU have no choice but to treat them as such, they've bent over backwards to try to get a deal and the UK government has not. Trade deals take years to negotiate, it was always going to be a difficult negotiation, BoJo nonsense about oven ready deal is now revealed to be the BS many assumed.

Without a deal EU can not treat us more favourably than other countries without a trade deal, that's just the way it is, WTO rules.

Don't be angry with EU, be angry with the selfish pricks that convinced people to vote leave. They all seem to be able to shield themselves from the fallout, being multi millionaires rather than 'men of the people'.

Beans, beans, good for the heart
the more you eat
the more you fart

BTW
Baked beans are made from

• beans imported from the EU
• tomatoes imported from the EU
• spices imported from the EU

encased in

• paper imported from the EU
• steel imported from the EU

you'd better eat turnips

I suppose, to be fair, Switzerland perhaps has the kind of relationship some Brexiteers were envisaging. They sort of get to cherry-pick. It’s a fractious relationship though. They don’t have unfettered access to the single market. They do have to accept some EU laws, including free movement. In September 2020 they had a referendum on keeping to keep free movement or reject it, and they voted by a massive landslide to keep it, because it would have disrupted other deals with the EU on transport, research and trade - and they have seen what’s happening to us.

Get off your high horse NZ has a tiny population with a tiny population density. In an infectious disease these 2 factors are extremely relevant. Look at say, Cornwall as opposed to Manchester.

Is that a straw man I spot? They have been multiplying exponentially since 2016. I assume you agree with the rest of my posts, after all Teipei has almost exactly the same population as Manchester, though more densely populated. Hard to argue it would not have been a good thing if our government had similarly responded effectively and with concern for its people (along with their will) and only 7 as opposed to 3874 Mancunians had lost their lives to Covid.

Countries with vastly different political systems and population densities and cultures have used the same means of suppressing the virus. The U.K. really have been exceptional in their failure, especially as our public health resources were actually rated first in the world. They actually turned their back on that resource /capability and gave the job to Dido......

For business purposes, are considerably further away and will demand reciprocity. Visas for trade with India, for example?

Already happened with respect to study visas. Including the right for these students to stay in the UK to work after their studies. Since 2012, Indian students haven't been permitted to work in the UK once they finished their studies, but this is now part of UK India trade agreement discussions.

Anyhow, apparently we would rather have students from India than care workers or nurses from the EU?

Sweet Jesus.

Shame the UK chose to do Brexit at a time when it had the two worst PMs in its history.
The well-meaning but stupid little Englander Theresa May and her suicidal Red Lines.
Then the fibbing journalist who was so used to bullshitting his way out of trouble with a few recycled bad jokes.