EU blackmailing the UK

[houseinthesnow]

So it comes to pass. The EU have decided unless we agree to their unreasonable demands they will halt all travel, including air and road travel whilst still fishing in our waters apparently!

It is nothing short of piracy.

The true nature of the EU has been exposed for some time, hence our departure - but now no one can be any doubt just to the levels they will sink to.
The EU have no interest in trade relations, nor cooperation, they only seek control and power. The trading relations is and was always, window dressing to create a superstate - and it seems they are now not afraid to inflict as much damage as possible to stop a member leaving.
Even the most passionate remainer will now see how deeply disturbing this behaviour actually is.

One could argue it is an act of war in fact.

It should be treated as such.

I will happily eat beans to the end of my days than be blackmailed by the EU. We all knew it would get nasty at the end, but who they knew they were capable of this. I suppose we can't be that surprised given the past. The gloves are off now for sure - and that goes both ways we should remind them.

Hard hats on.

Your last post was a bit TL;DR red

and that, right there, is the issue.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Shame we didn't get the second referendum '

Yes I think if we had we'd have stayed.

As I've proven (as someone who voted remain) many if not most don’t understand the difference between the many arrangements with various countries.

Your last post was a bit TL;DR red. Try to be a bit more concise and to the point.

Well that's just rude.

Not getting the answer that you want resulting in petty insults?

@DGRossetti

I have plenty more pictures to explain, if the words aren't working.

I have one as well

'Because in order to have completely free movement of capital, goods and services (like other EU countries), you need to accept free movement of people. Those are the four pillars of EU membership. They’re indivisible'

Yes but we aren't in the EU so surely this can and should be changed as it would be of mutual benefit.

How do you lot cope with change in general, it must be terrible expecting things to stay the same for ever because that's the rules.

Get off your high horse New Zealand just watched and learned from what was going on in the rest of the world. We saw what Taiwan (7 deaths in a country of 51m, many in densely populated Teipei) was doing in December when they first appreciated that this was SARS + and ignored it. They never had a lockdown, their economy is booming and all thanks to an effective public health response. It was never rocket science, just effective planning and logistics.

Exactly the skills we will need, but clearly don’t have, for coping with no deal.....

'Not getting the answer that you want resulting in petty insults?'

Oh please. I'm lowering myself to the level of this thread.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'You don't get to rock in and say 'oh well why haven't we just done this or that'

Oh I'm sorry! I thought this was a public chat forum? Have I inadvertently stumbled into a private chat group? 🙄

No its not a private chat. Strangely enough this debate has been on MN for four and a half years. And its been all over the media for 4 and a half years.

If you didn't pay attention, go away and google it or use the open search facility on MN. You might learn something. Start with the 2016 and May's Speech and the reaction to it. Thats when we rejected Norway.

Honestly, its tiresome and its disingeous. And it shows the extent to which people just thought things would magically solve themselves or the isue would vanish into thin air.

No. And just no again.

We are where we are because of decision WE made as a soverign country. This is what we wanted. Its not the EU doing anything wrong. This is what it is like to be outside the EU. A Bit Shit Really.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Not getting the answer that you want resulting in petty insults?'

Oh please. I'm lowering myself to the level of this thread.

Apparently not as you have declined to read anything that would allow you to be remotely informed for the last four years.

Yes but we aren't in the EU so surely this can and should be changed as it would be of mutual benefit.

So basically you're chucking your toys out of the pram because the EU won't change one of it's fundamental principles to suit a country that opted to leave.
Exceptionalism writ large.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Because in order to have completely free movement of capital, goods and services (like other EU countries), you need to accept free movement of people. Those are the four pillars of EU membership. They’re indivisible'

Yes but we aren't in the EU so surely this can and should be changed as it would be of mutual benefit.

How do you lot cope with change in general, it must be terrible expecting things to stay the same for ever because that's the rules.

Where's the mutual benefit if we aren't reciprocating?

That's individual gain. It's not rocket science.

'New Zealand just watched and learned from what was going on in the rest of the world. '

NZ has a tiny population with a tiny population density. In an infectious disease these 2 factors are extremely relevant. Look at say, Cornwall as opposed to Manchester.

@FastMovingLuxuryGoods

Your last post was a bit TL;DR red

and that, right there, is the issue.

snigger

I would be fine if I kept to three word slogans

'We Are Fucked'
'Brexit is Shit'

Maybe Remain should have gone:
'Sex or Sovereignty'

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Well yes, but also quite vulgar, and lacking in the nuance you need when dealing with headbanger loon Brexiteers'

Whatever happened to #BeKind

They aren't 'loons' they just have different opinions to you.

Why won't the EU agree to a tariff free trade like they have with Norway and Iceland and like they initially discussed with May, does anyone have any ideas other than punishment? Why are some of you so desperate to be tied to these arrogant, unelected people.

Again, I voted remain but the way the EU are carrying on I think I'm glad we've left.

You're right. Not loons. Might you accept 'less informed' or 'uninformed' about substantive and significant details?

With a need for everyone to be more aware of details before deciding who is being being arrogant or being glad to leave.

For example, joining the EEA was one possiblity that the UK could have opted for. However, this gov't rejected the idea.

Yet, it is the EEA that, Norway signed up to (and pays into), that grants Norway access to the EU's single market. Moreover, Norway and the EU have agreed to continue fishing in each other's waters in this year's negotiations.

So if you would like the UK to have a trade arrangement with the EU similar to Norways, then logically you would be happy enough for the UK to pay for access to the single market and to allow the mutual fishing in each other's waters just like Norway does. In which case, the argument is not with the EU, but with the UK government opting to reject this arrangement.

ec.europa.eu/fisheries/press/eu-and-norway-reach-agreement-fisheries-arrangements-2020_en

The EU Commission President this morning in her comments has shown the EU wishes to be reasonable.

So you believe all that do you OP?

I imagined you also believed, as many people claimed, that 'they need us more than we need them'. Well they didn't and they don't.

This country voted to leave the EU and it's what we're going to do.

What on earth makes you think that the EU should let our government set the agenda for trade agreements. They owe us nothing and they, of course, are looking out for their member states. Why would they not? It's the least the member states should expect.

You want to go it alone? This is what going it alone looks like; likely it won't be pretty. Many of us knew that, which is why we voted remain.

I'm sick of people who wanted out and are now moaning because that's what they're getting.

Be happy, you've got your blue passport.

I look forward to the French fishermen, farmers and vintners to poverty - form suggests they'll adopy Guy Fawkes day with Macron as the guy.

I'm struggling to understand why you might think that these French professionals would blame Macron (currently trying to defend their rights) for the ill effects of a referendum he had nothing to do with and has clearly said was based on lies.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'The EU aren't going to allow EFTA, but a little bit better because that would mean re-negotiating EFTA for all the other EFTA members'

Oh fgs in 4 years they could've had a similar arrangement but called it something else. So not EFTA.

Honestly it's like pulling teeth. I'd rather we'd stayed but we didn't. I can't see why free trade is such an unattainable thing. We will all lose out, EU just as much when there isn’t any kind of deal.

I know other posters have pointed this out, but are you not understanding that a key part of EFTA is free movement of labour?

'If you didn't pay attention, go away and google it or use the open search facility on MN'

Erm, I'm not quite sure who tf you think you are but I'll do as I please thanks.

'Where's the mutual benefit if we aren't reciprocating? That's individual gain. It's not rocket science.'

We sell to them they sell to us. That sounds reciprocal to me.

'The EU' represents 450 million people in 27 sovereign countries.

Between them, they and their elected representatives have decided that:

• No country outside of the Union can benefit from the same terms that members of the Union have,
• No country that chooses to leave the Union can benefit from the same terms as when they were members, and cannot be given better terms than the members themselves have,
• The mandate of the EU representatives is to act in the best interests of the Union.

The last point is important. It applies in the UK too. MPs are duty bound to act in the best interests of the UK as a whole - not just for those who sponsor a particular party, or those who shout loudest. If MPs followed this duty (which they actually agree to when they enter the HoC) then they should act accordingly - i.e. act in the best interests of the nation, even if this is sometimes contrary to the wishes of a majority of the voters, then perhaps the folly of Brexit would have been stopped in its tracks before it could cause so much damage and cost £200 billion and counting for no tangible benefit.

The EU is blackmailing the UK? Nonsense. This is democracy in action, a concept that Brexiters are fond of telling everyone they support. 17 million British voters wanted to leave the Union but still enjoy all of the benefits of membership with none of the costs, responsibilities or compromises that membership entails. This is what Johnson, Gove, Raab and Vote Leave promised that they would deliver. 450 million people in the EU have given their response - 'Sorry, but No.'

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'The failure to react to and effectively suppress Covid has led to one of the highest death rates'

It really hasn't. In context deaths per million pop are less than Italy and Spain and similar to France www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Please don't say NZ with its teeny population and low pop density did so very well.

The covid stats from China are good. Perhaps Boris should declare himself Great Glorious Peoples Leader, and emulate China. There would not be any of the usual critisism .... for long.

'know other posters have pointed this out, but are you not understanding that a key part of EFTA is free movement of labour?'

Jesus. A different arrangement, free trade without free movement. Why not? I couldn't give a rat's ass about 'pillars' and what has always happened before, times change and free trade without free movement should not be the hand wringing drama some of you are making it out to be.

We sell to them they sell to us. That sounds reciprocal to me.

“We export more to Ireland than we do to China, almost twice as much to Belgium as we do to India, and nearly three times as much to Sweden as we do to Brazil. It is not realistic to think we could just replace European trade with these new markets”

“In a stand-off between Britain and the EU, 44 per cent of our exports is more important to us than eight per cent of the EU’s exports is to them. The economic arguments are clear. Being part of a 500-million trading bloc is significant for us. One of the issues is that a lot of people will invest here in the UK because it is the UK in Europe.” ‘

“The reality is that we do not know on what terms we would win access to the single market. We do know that in a negotiation we would need to make concessions in order to access it, and those concessions could well be about accepting EU regulations, over which we would have no say, making financial contributions, just as we do now, accepting free movement rules, just as we do now, or quite possibly all three combined. It is not clear why other EU member states would give Britain a better deal than they themselves enjoy.” ‘

Theresa May speech - 26th May 2016

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'If you didn't pay attention, go away and google it or use the open search facility on MN'

Erm, I'm not quite sure who tf you think you are but I'll do as I please thanks.

'Where's the mutual benefit if we aren't reciprocating? That's individual gain. It's not rocket science.'

We sell to them they sell to us. That sounds reciprocal to me.

We sell to them they sell to us. That sounds reciprocal to me.

We can sell to them and they can sell to us, regardless of whether we have a trade deal.

However, in the case of the EU, full access to the single market is dependent on also allowing movement of free labour.

I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand. If trade deals were simple we would have a trade deal with the US by now.

Off you pop and explain that to Johnson, then, all GetOffYourHighHorse.

He's the one with the handwringing drama and last minute cross-Channel dashes.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'know other posters have pointed this out, but are you not understanding that a key part of EFTA is free movement of labour?'

Jesus. A different arrangement, free trade without free movement. Why not? I couldn't give a rat's ass about 'pillars' and what has always happened before, times change and free trade without free movement should not be the hand wringing drama some of you are making it out to be.

There is no drama- there is only a rule which we have declined to adhere to and so now cannot benefit from the nicer aspects.

It's very straight forward. Everything has a price.