EU blackmailing the UK

[houseinthesnow]

So it comes to pass. The EU have decided unless we agree to their unreasonable demands they will halt all travel, including air and road travel whilst still fishing in our waters apparently!

It is nothing short of piracy.

The true nature of the EU has been exposed for some time, hence our departure - but now no one can be any doubt just to the levels they will sink to.
The EU have no interest in trade relations, nor cooperation, they only seek control and power. The trading relations is and was always, window dressing to create a superstate - and it seems they are now not afraid to inflict as much damage as possible to stop a member leaving.
Even the most passionate remainer will now see how deeply disturbing this behaviour actually is.

One could argue it is an act of war in fact.

It should be treated as such.

I will happily eat beans to the end of my days than be blackmailed by the EU. We all knew it would get nasty at the end, but who they knew they were capable of this. I suppose we can't be that surprised given the past. The gloves are off now for sure - and that goes both ways we should remind them.

Hard hats on.

Keep seeing people talk about how we “sold” our fishing rights, why then do they automatically revert back to us if there isn’t a deal?

Think the German car manufacturers are maybe doing their part. The Express is now reporting an E.U. backdown after talking to Merkel.

I can just imagine the outcry on MN if the 'United States of Europe' were to conscript all young men into Federal Service or worse, to go to war. I don't think many posters on here would be happy for their little darlings to go to war, would they?

You understand the implications of a border between Ireland and the U.K.? You know how hard won the GFA was by Mowlem and Blair and how far Gerry Adams was persuaded to move?
You know how many people died in conflict on U.K. territory within living memory?

You’ll understand that co-operation between nations brings peace, security and that leads to prosperity? You can see that post war that became incredibly important?

You can surely see that by supporting poorer nations to join we increase the likelihood of peace, we open up opportunities for greater employment for all and staff our hotels, our coffee shops, our hospitals? Polarised wealth and opportunities do not lead to improved outcomes for anyone.

That’s before you go down the moral route of the rights of all people to a good life.

Well yes, I am whinging on about the economic consequences because if my food bill increases by 5% I will be back in the overdraft it took me 5 years to get rid of. My overdraft was caused by having to flee my marital home with a broken jaw and an opened up by force birth injury btw, not financial irresponsibility.

Our own armed forces employ women. They work in collaboration with other nations who are committed to peace and global security. Our fighter pilots have been trained to fly French jets. Our aircraft carriers carry foreign planes.
Our military intelligence unit at Northwood is international and not led by a U.K. citizen.
Our armed forces working alone might manage to secure the Isle of Man, but aren’t big enough for much more because of cuts.

Exactly. Given the way that wars are now carried out, conscription is unlikely, but the UK will always need military allies and that will always govern decision making.

@Oliversmumsarmy

Keep seeing people talk about how we “sold” our fishing rights, why then do they automatically revert back to us if there isn’t a deal?

Hmmm. I'm not sure they do.

Indeed we wrote in law that all existing EU law rolls over until we actively repeal it and replace it.

Then we decided we didn't like international law and we'd break it if we didn't like it. And put that into law.

So yeah.

Fuck knows what the situation is.

@GetOffYourHighHorse Norway in EFTA so is in SM, abides by the rules, pays in, that is why it has tariff free access... we are perfectly free to do the same or similar.

Norway can also negotiate its own FTA's isn't in fisheries or agriculture policies......

A better Q is why didn't we go for this?

I'm genuinely surprised at the leave voters trying to re-write history. They should just remember we're all in this together.

www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/prepare-for-food-shortages-mass-unemployment-and-a-10-year-recession-says-proud-prime-minister-20201211203409

@FoolsAssassin

Think the German car manufacturers are maybe doing their part. The Express is now reporting an E.U. backdown after talking to Merkel.

'The Express' is doing some 'reporting'.

I thought the Express was blacklisted by FB for not being 'a reliable news source'. Which is some damn achievement coming from FB.

I think I'll wait for other sources to report back first.

@CherryPavlova Perhaps if they walked around the murals of Derry and saw all the plaques stating a person was killed at that spot they might understand the importance of the GFA. Another point of this whole mess that is woefully steeped in ignorance.

@Littleideasbigbook, sorry to hear all that. Hopefully things are much better for you now.

Utter bollocks and you know it.

Norway and Iceland are in the SM (although not eh CU).

We are currently throwing our toys out of our pram at being asked to maintain the level playing field that is a necessary requirement to be in the SM.

That's why we aren't getting 'the same deal'.

[quote jasjas1973]@GetOffYourHighHorse Norway in EFTA so is in SM, abides by the rules, pays in, that is why it has tariff free access... we are perfectly free to do the same or similar.

Norway can also negotiate its own FTA's isn't in fisheries or agriculture policies......

A better Q is why didn't we go for this?[/quote]
UnICORn CaKEs!

Why won't the EU agree to a tariff free trade like they have with Norway and Iceland and like they initially discussed with May, does anyone have any ideas other than punishment? Why are some of you so desperate to be tied to these arrogant, unelected people.

The barrier to a Norway style deal wasn't the EU, it was Conservative back benchers.

@Penners99

The EU can go to hell.

The UK is well shot of such a corrupt organisation

Because we’re left with such a morally pure government?

Balls.

@Oliversmumsarmy

Keep seeing people talk about how we “sold” our fishing rights, why then do they automatically revert back to us if there isn’t a deal?

It would seem that purchases have been unregulated and the term often used is "good faith" in regards to the length of contracts. It would seem the government would face litigation if they try to break legally binding contracts.

@MagicSummer (and @Woodhill)

I agree with you OP, but we are sadly in the minority. All other arguments aside, I will try to put into words why I dislike the EU so much. Back in 1973, the Common Market was presented to us as a wonderful opportunity for the UK to trade preferentially with the other 8 countries (as it was then). I was 100% behind it when the idea was not universally popular. However, over the years, the now-EU has grown into an ugly monster, masking the 'trade advantages' with ever-growing power over member countries, admitting poorer countries which the richer countries such as the UK have to support monetarily, trampling on individuality and growing ever closer to a United States of Europe, with its own Army and rules made centrally which are mandatory in every country. That is why I dislike the whole concept now. I can just imagine the outcry on MN if the 'United States of Europe' were to conscript all young men into Federal Service or worse, to go to war. I don't think many posters on here would be happy for their little darlings to go to war, would they?

I understand your comments but I don't think they are as accurate as you might think. The EU would be far more efficient and effective if it was an EU superstate but all of the Member States have rejected this model in favour of inter-governmental cooperation. And so the reality is that if Europe was attacked today and needed to go to war, these would be the decisions made by each of the individual Member States (and some may oppose) - but subject to their commitments under NATO (which has nothing to do with EU) .

So the EU will continue and the question is now what is the UK going to do outside of it ? To date it's policy has been dictated largely by what it will NOT do with the EU. So will the UK agree a trade deal with the US which is likely to favour the US? Will the UK government reform social and employment legislation to move from an EU to a US-style system? These are now very important Qs. And I would hazard a guess that some of the answers (if BJ can come up with any!) may be unpalatable to some thoughtful leavers such as yourselves.

Maybe they won't be unpalatable to very right wing Consetvatives who agitated for Brexit though who won't mind if blue collar workers only receive a fortnight's statutory holiday a year. (Incidentally, by using this example I am trying to illustrate how social and economic reform are pretty much inseparable; in response to your objections about the EU "intruding" in to matters beyond straightforward trade. )

@Zilla1 Thank you, they are. Hopefully will remain that way.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

I would love someone from the EU to be interviewed by Andrew Neil and actually be scrutinised fairly and answer the question why can't we have tariff free trade like Norway and Iceland which would of course be of equal benefit as we import plenty of stuff from the EU? I can't seem to find the reason for them refusing ...

Because Norway and Iceland (and Lichtenstein) are in EFTA, which joined the EU single market in 1994.

The UK (at least according to May) didn’t want that, because it requires freedom of movement.

Personally I am looking forward to to The UK becoming more like North Korea. But with less kimchi and more parsnips

One could argue it is an act of war in fact.

OMG, as European in Europe, can I still read Mumsnet when no deal happens? Or even contribute to is? Or would I violate the British sovereignty. Not sure now!

From The Times -

"But much of the EU’s thinking reflects a mindset that fails to appreciate that the UK was quite serious about leaving in the first place. For instance, the EU is keen that Britain doesn’t deliver what it regards as unfair state aid when the Covid recovery starts. But the EU itself has no plans to restrict itself in this way and thinks that not only its coronavirus recovery scheme but the European Commission and European Investment Bank funding in general should be exempt from subsidy rules. It is not reciprocal for the EU to be able to exempt its €750 billion fund from the treaty’s subsidy rules when the UK’s post-Covid funding would be subject to them"

How can this possibly be fair?

To all the remainers, why is it do you think, that the EU will do a trade deal with Canada but not so a similar or even an equivalent deal with the UK?

What other reason is there other than to try and prevent the UK from being economically competitive and to deter other EU countries from leaving? Just curious.

Are you serious??? Please say you’re joking.

It’s because Canada’s deal doesn’t include access to the single market for financial services, but Britain desperately needs access to the single market for financial services because financial services are very significant part of our economy - around 7% overall, I think - and we export around £30 billion worth of financial services to the EU every year.

I so want to believe Brexiteers aren’t thick and there’s some merit to this nonsense that I can’t see. But clearly the people who voted for it didn’t understand these basic concepts.