Person without kids judging parenting

[Piwlyfbicsly]

I and the person in question are both in our 30s. We are colleagues.
I find this person really difficult due to many reasons. However one of the worst is her judging parents constantly. It's not about big things like suspected abuse or neglect. It's about how calm, nice, achieving children equal to "well done, good parents" mindset and vice versa. I am a parent myself and I find it really challenging to listen to it. Every time there is a child she identifies as "naughty" or anything less than perfect, it means "something wrong with the parents". Everything is about "spoiling" for her, which I don't agree with. I find it difficult to accept judgments from a person who never had the experience of being a parent. I am in no way a perfect mother but isn't it obvious that children present with all the range of abilities, personalities and behaviour patterns, and not everything is down to parenting. Two of mine are absolutely different. She's never had one sleepless night due to baby crying, she has no idea whatsoever and I can't tolerate just another lunch break story of how she's done with all these parents, "what's wrong with them with doing XYZ". She had the audacity to comment on my parenting once when we bumped into each other in the local park and my DD didn't want to leave home and made a little fuss (Mummy, let's stay a little bit longer pleeeeeaaaaaasseeee etc). "You have got to be firm with her" I remember feeling my blood pressure going up. I don't know how I managed not to snap.

What is a polite way to stop this? I can try to avoid her, but what's the professionally appropriate way to let her know that she's crossing the line a bit here?
AIBU here? Too sensitive?

I used to have a single 50s colleague who had a real ‘downer’ on mothers of young children - whether from jealousy of what she’d never had, I don’t know.

It was a small library with a very good children’s section, so lots of young families would come in. And now and then, inevitably, someone would ask if their child could use the staff loo.

Colleague would inevitably grumpily complain that parents should take children to the loo before coming. After hearing this a few times I took pleasure in informing her that very small children do not have the physiological control to ‘go’ well before they actually need to, and that when they do need to, it must be soon. Would she prefer accidents on the carpet?

That shut her up, on that topic at least.

I’ve got a good friend like this, almost puts me off seeing her as I constantly feel judged by her even though she doesn’t have kids and doesn’t even have any kids in her family. If I discipline my kids in front of her she joins in, which I really don’t need back up. Or if one is being silly, as 2 and 4 year old often does she rolls her eyes or says something.

I only judge the parents that are very clearly doing a shit job of it. Like my partners friend, he has 4 kids, doesn't parent any of them, not sure he pays for them and yet thought he was father of the year when he took one in for a while.

Or a family friend who has kids, they were unruly as young children, going round hitting people, talking back at adults in a really horrible way etc and she would stand there and just laugh, did nothing about it. She now wonders why she has zero control over them now they are getting older, constantly in trouble at school etc. God knows what they will be like as teenagers. She could do something, anything, she just can't be bothered. Nor can the dad, he is completely uninterested. The kids have no chance. They are looked after well, no abuse or anything, but they aren't disciplined at all.

It's those parents I can't stand. I don't tell them how to parent because what's the point, they won't listen, but I do judge them as they are awful. I get it's hard, but do something, standing back and laughing is just teaching the kids that the behaviour is fine and it's not.

Being a parent is bloody hard and you never know if what you're doing is right, but generally speaking, if you are there for your child, take care of them, feed them well (or as well enough as they will eat, some are fussy, I was), and you're trying to teach them right from wrong etc then you're doing a good job. Kids have tantrums, they all do, I feel sorry for a parent who is dealing with a tantrumming child in public. It's doubtful they are like that all the time, just tired or hungry etc.

YANBU at all. She has no idea. It's like when non-drivers try to tell people how to drive a car (looking at you, mum!).

I have two children - a son and a daughter. My son is what you might call 'spirited' and my daughter is more what you might call a 'model child'. Neither have been parented differently so far as I can tell.

They are also dealing with the significant fallout of the early death of their father (few years ago now), so I really especially hate it when people say it is all about the parenting. My son is having counselling that keeps getting interrupted by covid. Sometimes shit happens in life. People have all sorts of circumstances and I am sure most of us are trying our best.

@Popcorntoes that’s really kind of you. I had quite a bad time in my early 20s, from a mental health point of view but happily it resulted in much more resilience. I understand how it happened as my mum was left to deal with 3 kids on her own a lot, as my dad was very often away with work.

But coming back to the original gist of the thread, I agree. You dont know what parenting is until you’re neck deep in it.

I don’t think people need to be parents to comment on parenting however I think they do need to have spent a significant amount of time caring for children to be able to comments from a place on understanding about what “parenting entails”.

I remember one of my friends visited me when my son was 6 weeks old and commented “what do you do all day...don’t you get bored”. Looking back it makes me laugh, especially since she had her own child last year and then was commenting about how hard it is just to get out the door with a small baby.

Like anything else in like to be able to offer advice you probably need some experience on which to base that advice.

In your situation I wouldn’t try to be polite. I’d just be direct and assertive. “Look I don’t want or appreciate your comments on my child or parenting, so keep them to yourself in the future”. Then if she doesn’t stop find something about her to comment on that she won’t like (maybe that second bit of advice is a bit petty).

I voted YABU not because I think you are BU - I mean, let's face it, it's annoying - but because women who don't have children whether through choice or through infertility face different pressures and difficulties to women who do, and in a workplace context at least it's tricky to bridge that gap by referring to it, even obliquely, imo.

I mean, just as she doesn't 'get' the ins and outs of life with children, so you don't get the many subtle and not so subtle interactions she's had that have started off being about something else but have ended up being about her not having kids. You also don't know if she's experienced infertility or pregnancy loss or whatever, and you don't know what can of worms you could be opening up for her.

Whatever is behind these remarks, it sounds like they come from a place of unhappiness, even if it's "only" to do with her own childhood. So, like any potentially tricky workplace interaction that has potential to veer towards areas that are personally difficult, I'd advise to deflect and minimise, for both of your sakes.

I was a parenting expert (in my head!) before I had children!

When I had my first two children I was very smug and judgemental as my older two are very high achieving, polite, sociable, head-girl/boy types with many interests and talents.

Child number 3 brought my smug parenting pride crashing down to earth! He has SEND and is, what many would call, a challenging child.

Having a difficult child has been a humbling experience and taught me more than I would ever imagine. All my existing conventional parenting techniques have had to change dramatically. I'm now much more open minded and compassionate, it's turned my views on their head and given me a broader outlook. I'm no longer smug and judgemental but I'm a much more understanding and knowledgeable parent and person.

Hardbackwriter
There are loads and loads and loads of parents who are hugely judgemental because anything that their one or two children did 'right' was clearly down to their amazing parenting and other people only struggle with it because they're not as good as them (anything their child is not so good at is just random luck, though).

They don't even have to have Perfect Children, in my experience.

When I was a child/young teenager, one of my mother's friends was very free with her advice to my mother about how to treat me. Her own daughter, older than me, was a nationally notorious idiot, and drug-addicted with it. I used to keep quiet about that fact because it wouldn't have helped, but I noticed that my mother always said "yes yes" but never followed the advice, and I think I know why.

When I had young teens at school the mother of one of their friends was also free with advice about how I should be bringing them up: she always knew what to do. When I noticed that it was one of her children who had been described by my (older) son as "the unhappiest person in my year", one of her daughters had run away from home at the age of sixteen, one had tried to kill himself, and the daughter in my daughter's year was a bully, I got that flash of deja vu that told me her advice might not be the best in the world.

The only thing I find difficult to watch is parents who make a statement of intent of the "don't do that; if you don't stop we'll have to go home" or "we have to leave in five minutes" kind and then don't follow through: they are as someone upthread commented making a stick for their own backs, and teaching their child that they can be ignored. That's fine up to a point, if say it's just kicking the furniture, but if that child can't be immediately stopped from teasing a dog and gets bitten as a result the child will suffer for the parent not really having made and kept rules. I suppose it's sort of training the child, as with a dog; if you are not consistent you'll end up with a confused child or dog getting into trouble through not following sensible rules such as stopping when told and not running into the road. That's horrible to think about.

I don't judge strangers if you can see the parent trying to do something, I never judge a tantrum everyone has them!
I tend to find friends with whom my parenting is aligned, firm boundary's and consequences. Unfortunately my sil loves to throw a threat around and now follow through, as a result she has the most ignorant rude child who knows he doesn't have to do as he is told, I try to avoid as much as possible as her parenting is at complete odds to mine, she is also the most judgmental person I know about other people parenting. I honestly have to bite my lip so hard, she just can't see she is raising a complete nightmare child.

Yes I have a good friend who had no children but thought super nannys techniques were literally the only parenting solution.
My DD was an absolute pita about sleeping as a toddler/young child, and it drove me insane when people with kids who did sleep well, and those with no kiďs always told me I was doing it wrong. My 2nd child slept like a dream (same 2 parents) so it obviously wasnt all down to my inadequate parenting!
Friend with no children watched supernanny put a child back to bed about 90 times in 1 night .....and wondered why I didnt want to take that approach when I was virtually delirious(and had PND) from 5 years of broken sleep!

She can have an opinion but she shouldn’t judge if she doesn’t know what you’ve been through and she’s dishing criticism. I’d say the same to the mum lucky enough to have perfect dream DC.