Person without kids judging parenting

[Piwlyfbicsly]

I and the person in question are both in our 30s. We are colleagues.
I find this person really difficult due to many reasons. However one of the worst is her judging parents constantly. It's not about big things like suspected abuse or neglect. It's about how calm, nice, achieving children equal to "well done, good parents" mindset and vice versa. I am a parent myself and I find it really challenging to listen to it. Every time there is a child she identifies as "naughty" or anything less than perfect, it means "something wrong with the parents". Everything is about "spoiling" for her, which I don't agree with. I find it difficult to accept judgments from a person who never had the experience of being a parent. I am in no way a perfect mother but isn't it obvious that children present with all the range of abilities, personalities and behaviour patterns, and not everything is down to parenting. Two of mine are absolutely different. She's never had one sleepless night due to baby crying, she has no idea whatsoever and I can't tolerate just another lunch break story of how she's done with all these parents, "what's wrong with them with doing XYZ". She had the audacity to comment on my parenting once when we bumped into each other in the local park and my DD didn't want to leave home and made a little fuss (Mummy, let's stay a little bit longer pleeeeeaaaaaasseeee etc). "You have got to be firm with her" I remember feeling my blood pressure going up. I don't know how I managed not to snap.

What is a polite way to stop this? I can try to avoid her, but what's the professionally appropriate way to let her know that she's crossing the line a bit here?
AIBU here? Too sensitive?

Yep! Very annoying.

It's embarrassing how much easier I thought parenting would be before I had one. We have a huge issue with food and my toddler and despite all my "well if you just keep normalising vegetables of course they will eat them" this is clearly not working and my son is on a hunger strike (not literally).

I would just say something lighthearted like... Oh yes I used to think that too, before I had children haha!

I think I'd look her right in the eye and say that times are so stressful for everyone right now that I want to restrict my work chat to positive things. Then I'd interrupt her with a prepared comment every time she started with her moaning.

ike this before kids, I was like this after I had 2 children

AND THEN I had the baby from hell. Ok - she grew out of it but it taught me a big big lesson.

Even if you have kids - you have only had your own kids - others experience is totally different.

And working with them isn't the same thing at all. I put my success down to my experience as a children's nurse. I'd managed wards full of children of all different ages - including kids that were (obviously the parents fault) poorly behaved.

There is no doubt that poor parenting is implicated in some poor behaviour but certainly not all. Nature and nurture work in combination. Hell - 2 kittens from the same cat often have totally different personalities with 1 being calm and well behaved and the other being off the wall - sometimes literally.

Even when children are well behaved, there are usually some times when things go wrong, (due to teething, hunger, illness, tiredness whatever). There are also many cases when perfect parents', perfect children are anything but in anyone else's eyes.

As has been said before - the only perfect parent is childless.

@Girlzroolz that sums it up. Fantastic post!

I think I can understand the non parents judging much more over parents judging.

They are the worst. The ones who's kids sleep through, and are so well behaved, and don't have tantrums, and believe it's down to their parenting. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's just luck of the draw.

Until I had child number 3, I was a little judgey. Serves me right really. DS2 is a 'challenge' and no amount of parenting/being firm/consistent has made much difference. I get judged, by other parents.

On the fence with this - used to really posses me off when people.said you haven't got kids you don't understand- l was a kid once and knew boundaries! But l quite often ask my child free friend for parenting advice as l really respect her opinion. But l had nooo idea until l had one what the challenges are.

Piss me off even!

I don't want children and people always assume I'll judge their parenting or their children but I never do. However, many times I've had to tell people to stop judging others parenting or children. I honestly think it's partly thinking their children will never be like that or they'll be better parents and partly trying to convince themselves their children will behave better.

For example if there's a toddler having a tantrum in Starbucks a friend of mine who wants but doesn't have children would say things like the child shouldn't be given chocolate because it makes them tantrum. What I think she was really doing was, because she assumed the parents were embarrassed about their toddler having a tantrum and was worried she would be embarrassed that way, she was trying to convince herself her children wouldn't tantrum in Starbucks because she would never give her kids chocolate. She also will never let her kids have screen time, toy guns, princess dresses and a whole long list of other stuff. When she has kids I'm sure she will realise they all have a tantrum, some more, some less, but they all do it and she will probably cringe a bit hoping people aren't judging her the way she has judged parents.

The vast majority of parents are doing what is best for them, their kids, their family and it's no one else's business really as long as there's no abuse or neglect.

@Wearywithteens
It’s not only behaviour.
I remember her commenting about a child who achieves well in reading “with parents like this it’s not a surprise” (parents are doctors). I found it insensitive in many levels.
Following with “why would a parent buy this type of shoes”, etc etc etc. It’s draining.

On*

Do you think she knows she is getting to you? Can you ignore, smile vaguely, not respond etc?

If she's been parented properly she wouldn't be so rude and invasive..... by her logic.

Tell her you can't stand adults who don't realise their unsolicited advice and theories on how everyone else should live is really tedious.

I had one of those days today where I imagined doing activities and having an obedient child before I had my own child. Guess what, I have the opposite. Today was so hard as he is teething and testing every single boundary. Am I a bad parent? No, probably a lot better than your judgemental cow of a colleague as I love, nurture and show attention to my child. I'm on top of everything concerning his well-being. I've never judged anyone and won't. I had this cow relative saying to me when I was pregnant that all these kids have iPads and constantly having screen time and I bet you won't do it as you seem pretty switched on and I turned around and said "oh how lovely of you, I remember your daughters having their own tv's in their bedrooms when I used to come and play when I was little though. I think you should know better as a parent to never say never" her jaw dropped. I think you should just turn around and say as most of the pp have said " I was the perfect parent before having my child and I'm guessing in your head you're probably the perfect parent but just wait until you have one as you will end up taking back every word you have ever said about parenting.

Ask her if she thinks it’s nature or nurture that makes some people so tiresomely judgemental?

Tell her maybe she is correct about it being the parents fault and if so she should tell her own they did a bad job as they raised a child to criticise others when they have no knowledge on the subject. Most normal people realise all children have their moments some because of hidden special needs, others because their tired or ill, some are having an off day and others are just little shits. Her however she's just a judgemental arse hole with no real clue on the subject. She doesn't see that perfect child behind closed doors when they start having a tantrum or that so called naughty child ace a test and help their grandparents etc.

To be honest, neither of you sound great. You just want to judge your “childless” friend and maybe she is equally as irritating. You both are coming from different directions of smug. But if it makes you both feel happy and justified, well, carry on.

One needn't have children to see that some parents don't parent well, and being human, even good parents make mistakes. However, she shouldn't go around dispensing unsolicited advice, especially if it doesn't affect her personally. (I'd say unsolicited advice may be warranted, though it still may not be well-received, if you're living with the child or their behaviour is for some other reason having a major impact on your life.)

I am really not sure who she thinks will be caring for her in her old age???

I hope you're 100% sure your kids will be caring for you in yours. Because a lot don't. And it's not all down to how you tried to raise them... sometimes you just get what you get...

I've got a bad case of doublethink around this subject.

I don't have kids, and I can definitely be judgmental of parents.

At the same time, I know I have no idea what it's like to be a parent, and can't imagine how challenging it must be.

I've chosen not to have kids in part because of how incredibly hard it can be – and yet I still catch myself judging pretty hard at times.

I'd never say those things out loud to a parent about their own child, though – I may have lots of judgmental thoughts appear in my head, but I know I can't back them up with experience and I certainly won't let them out of my mouth.

@GoldenOmber

If you don't want to snap at her, laugh and say "Yes, I was an expert at parenting too before I actually had children."

This is a good comment back! She'd have a nightmare if she met my 3 boys...i also blame the parents 😁😁

If the children are in your/her care while their parents are at work, then perhaps the way she looks after them is influencing their behaviour too. Might be worth pointing this out to her.

Some children get separation anxiety when away from their parents, so perhaps they have tantrums because they miss their loving attentive parents and don't do well going from 1-2-1 attention into group childcare settings where the carer (her) attention is divided.

She seems overtly judgmental though while there is no perfect parenting there are definitely parenting styles I judge more than others.

The other day I was at the playground and a lovely mom was there with her daughter (daughter was also lovely) but 10 minutes after us being there she told her 4 yo daughter to go, the daughter said the typical «NOOO!» and I the mom gave me a look and said « I don’t know how to get her home» and I gave her a sympathetic smile though expected her to at worse to the «one more minute but then we do have to go» instead she kept calling the kid every 5 minutes and the kid kept ignoring her and saying no, by the time we left the playground (1 hour later!) she still hadn’t gotten a hold of her daughter and we ended up leaving the playground before she did. She was lovely but I did judge her, I wasn’t thinking she was a shit parent but I was thinking she is making a rod for her own back and her daughter has literally zero respect for her which makes me sad. I think parenting is hard but sometimes it feels like some people are either not trying (like literally spending the most minimal amount of time with their kids possible) or are soooo not wanting to cause «trauma» to their little ones by setting boundaries that they litterally let their kids run circle around them and usually those are the parents who will say «kids will be kids am I right?» or «ah, Children! » while their kids run amok causing total chaos in their path and get utterly offended when one might suggest that their kids are kids yes but that like every kid also require boundaries and active parenting and are the most likely to say «you will understand when you have children».

We can all tell when someone is being rude, I don’t know think one needs to be a parent to be able to point that a kid is crossing boundaries and being inappropriate. I don’t think people without kids should automatically assume that parents could magically make every single kid be quiet and to never act up if they tried but I don’t think parents should naturally assume that ALL kids throw massive tantrums and is rude and obnoxious (like yes, all those are normal kid behaviors but if they are daily or hourly occurrences, it goes beyond kids being kids and might be link to the parenting techniques, assuming the kids don’t have any additional needs).

So I would say YANBU for finding your colleague annoying but I would say non-parents who complain about parents/kids are as annoying as parents who justify their kids terrible behavior and refuse to acknowledge there are things they could do differently in my book. I get it’s likely not your case and that’s why you are finding it particularly irritating but I would just tell her that you don’t enjoy hearing her views about people‘s parenting and would rather it wasn’t a topic and hope she gets it and stop bringing it up.

I think non parents can judge parents.

Adults are all former children so they have experience of being parented. Of course, they have their own views on that.

You don’t have to have a driving license to recognise that someone is a bad driver if they speed/run a red light etc. Likewise, you can recognise bad parenting when you see it.

But at the same time, you have a much better understanding of driving when you have had some time behind the wheel yourself. You can recognise evasive manoeuvres which may seem odd at first, in context, avoid other issues at a later stage. You develop skills and pick up knowledge that you wouldn’t get without experience.

Short version - non parents can judge but that doesn’t mean they are always right. Parents might do something they consider good parenting but that turns out badly in the end.

In my own experience, I know quite a few midwives and health visitors like this, do not have children but are very opinionated about it just because their professional qualification gives them some power.