Person without kids judging parenting

[Piwlyfbicsly]

I and the person in question are both in our 30s. We are colleagues.
I find this person really difficult due to many reasons. However one of the worst is her judging parents constantly. It's not about big things like suspected abuse or neglect. It's about how calm, nice, achieving children equal to "well done, good parents" mindset and vice versa. I am a parent myself and I find it really challenging to listen to it. Every time there is a child she identifies as "naughty" or anything less than perfect, it means "something wrong with the parents". Everything is about "spoiling" for her, which I don't agree with. I find it difficult to accept judgments from a person who never had the experience of being a parent. I am in no way a perfect mother but isn't it obvious that children present with all the range of abilities, personalities and behaviour patterns, and not everything is down to parenting. Two of mine are absolutely different. She's never had one sleepless night due to baby crying, she has no idea whatsoever and I can't tolerate just another lunch break story of how she's done with all these parents, "what's wrong with them with doing XYZ". She had the audacity to comment on my parenting once when we bumped into each other in the local park and my DD didn't want to leave home and made a little fuss (Mummy, let's stay a little bit longer pleeeeeaaaaaasseeee etc). "You have got to be firm with her" I remember feeling my blood pressure going up. I don't know how I managed not to snap.

What is a polite way to stop this? I can try to avoid her, but what's the professionally appropriate way to let her know that she's crossing the line a bit here?
AIBU here? Too sensitive?

This is one of those things that puzzle me, when for me it's when I comment on some ones driving eg too close to car in front, then you usually get the you don't drive so how can you judge ect, to me why is it common that to be able to comment on x you need direct experience of x, ? Because you can still learn the knowledge about x and know your correct but people sometimes still say unless you have done x then for some reason it's don't say anything.

I choose my battles, but then I don't have many. I don't think I've taught my child much, but I have behaved in a way that I want her to. She loves positive attention and reinforcement so I use that rather than telling her off (although I have had my moments) and I've either been lucky or successful because she's a lovely, calm, open minded child.

So, I kind of agree with the childless woman.

However not all kids are the same, and children's issues are not all down to upbringing either. Nor is every parent the same. Also, some behaviours invoke completely different reactions in adults. I like seeing kids charging about, being rambunctious. I don't like to hear them swearing and using adult language. There's a shocking number of parents who don't care that their kids swear. It's not the words spoken which are the problem it's the way in which they are received.

Anyway, this woman sounds unpleasant but she isn't the first. I didn't like kids before I had my own, and then my eyes opened not just to my own child but those of others and I mellowed rather a lot. I also judged parents and still do, but silently. I don't gob off in the office.

@SnackSizeRaisin

She probably wishes she had children. But yes agree with golden

How did you come to that baseless conclusion?

I think the fact you both work with children does make a difference personally (teachers?).

I can see how someone who is around children all day and possibly influencing them/in charge of them for that period of time may think they have some knowledge of parenting. Though I appreciate the reality is different.

But it does seem less unseasonable than say if you both worked in an office job completely unrelated to children.

As a teacher and a parent I can honestly say they are two VERY different things! There are some things you do know as a teacher, such as possible signs of SEN, how to pitch learning in an age-appropriate way etc but until you have experienced the utter relentlessness of being a parent you really can’t comment. And even if you do have children you can’t really judge others. You just don’t know the big picture and what else is going on for that child and family.

I used to have a friend like this. She knew exactly how to ensure perfectly obedient children, and once dared to complain to someone else about my dd1, who was in fact an angelic child who never even had a tantrum.

So I really enjoyed wallowing in Schadenfreude when she finally had her first, and for some strange reason her ‘perfect parenting’ method didn’t work. Somehow I managed not to say, ‘Well, now you know’, when she was looking thoroughly harassed and saying what a little bugger he was. I dare say I had a smug face on though.😈

I fully admit that up until the very point I actually had children, I was an expert on all aspects of child raising... I’m sure parents across the land lived me!

Lots of people with children have ill informed opinions. It's easier for them to blame the parents than accept they could have a child with difficulties and this includes professionals with children. Even though I have a teenager with diagnosed very complex needs I still come across professionals who don't understand but think they know it all.

She’s entitled to her opinion. You’re entitled not to listen to it.

until you have experienced the utter relentlessness of being a parent you really can’t comment

This. It's the sheer relentlessness of it that is difficult for non-parents to understand. They're probably right on whatever the individual issue is (being firm, no junk food, not giving in to tantrums, manners), but sometimes you have to let things go and count the minutes to bedtime to avoid cracking entirely.

Yes I agree it is annoying, especially for me now those same opinionated family members have their own children now who basically let them run riot and have hardly any discipline !
I remember making my children be quiet (seen and not heard and sit in the most boring family gatherings) and apologise for them not liking to eat a certain food, as that was what was expected but now our nieces and nephews are allowed to get away with anything they want to. No rules apply now apparently.
I have to bite my tongue a lot.....

There was a lot of ‘just do this’ just say no’ ‘just tell them what to do’
Which apparently does not apply now they have their own children.

I agree with the pp who said that until you have children you don't realise there are many "hills to die on" and you can't pick them all. I'd add to it by saying that one thing I only learned through being a parent is that there are vital needs children have, which are important to meet, and these can be in opposition to the short term smooth running of society or to adult priorities. So for example you see a six year old being a bit cheeky, or taking their own sweet time to do what they are asked. The non parent will see the "lack of discipline". The parent might see more - the child's need for autonomy and developing their own free will. Giving a soft, measured answer to "rudeness" might be showing acceptance and love to the legitimate feelings the child has, and modelling the sort of calm self-governance the parent is trying to instill over the long term. The parent has more information than the observer. For example they may know, this child has been struggling all year with how to regulate themselves and how to stop playing when it's home time - a snappy answer, then reluctantly coming along, might actually be progress. If the parent insists on "perfect obedience" in every detail it could wreck a longer term behavioural and developmental project.

i used to think my neices were let get away with murder. Now I realise their parents were playing the long game, focusing on slow steady improvement while preserving the relationship. Sometimes, the teen who finds their parents impossible and stops talking to them is the toddler who was regimented into good behaviour at all times. Some random in the playground can't see this.

@Popcorntoes
I agree with you and other posters who’s talking about seeing a bigger picture and the ability to understand the long term emotional/physical/financial struggle parents often face. Only seeing a bigger picture allows a person to see things in perspective. Actually many people who are not parents actually can do that. Maybe my colleague is just judgmental generally? And bashing parenting is just one of the ways it shows?
Wether I don’t think the analogy with driving is the best to represent the topic, but me passing the theory test is not enough to judge other’s ability to drive. It takes real life practice to become a good driver. However, I know that drink driving or reckless driving will never be acceptable (that equals to cases of abuse and neglect).
I also agree with other posters about parents judging other parents. I can see that often too

I agree of course many non parents get this wider view! I'm just saying that I personally didn't, it was all news to me, so I can see why someone might be judgemental. Your colleague is clearly a numpty though and yanbu

If you work with children it sounds like she's directly criticising the children in your care parents? That's not on and really should lead to a disciplinary tbh.

At the same time, I know I have no idea what it's like to be a parent, and can't imagine how challenging it must be.

The challenge lies in the fact that children don't have an OFF button or a PAUSE button. You are continually responsible for these wilful demanding little creatures who have a mind of their own, but don't understand the bigger picture and don't want to fall in with YOUR entirely rational plans. And you start on the back foot - you're exhausted after giving birth, you endure month upon month of never sleeping more than 2-4 hours straight, going back to work is an exercise in torture as you're torn in two directions and always failing at both your career and parenting and then, just as things are starting to get a bit better, often baby number 2 arrives and the whole cycle starts again, only with a stroppy toddler thrown in for good measure.

So yesterday we saw a waterwheel while walking to an appointment. DS3 loves waterwheels. I let him stare at it, nose pressed against the fence, for 4 minutes. But then we had to leave to get to our appointment on time. Cue whining, downright refusal, tantrum and then eventually being bodily carried, all 15+ kg of him, until we made it around the corner and he started looking at the next thing. Looking at him, you'd probably have thought that he was an incredibly badly behaved child. Actually, my feelings as his parent are more mixed. I'm incredibly proud of the amazing interest he takes in everything he sees around him. Like many 3 year olds, he is fascinated by mechanical things and how they work and he is always asking questions about them. His misbehaviour stems from a place of being so interested in things that he can't bear to be dragged away but just wants to keep on exploring. But on the other hand, there is a time and a place and he needs to learn that. Also, I'm trying to balance caring for him and giving him opportunities to explore with my job, cleaning and housework, life admin and all the day-to-day shit that we all have to deal with. None of that stuff goes away when you become a parent - instead you just get an extra, 24/7 job with no pay and no holidays .

The first thing my DS shouts in the morning is "MUMMY!". Throughout the day, there's a constant stream of "Mummy, I hurt", "Mummy, want a snack", "Mummy, I sad", "Mummy, come play", "Mummy, let's go", "No Mummy, don't want that", "Mummy, playground". When he wakes in the middle of the night because he's ill (and vomited on the sheets), had a nightmare or is simply wide awake at 3am in the morning and wants to play, guess who he cries for. That's right, "MUMMY". So sometimes, when I'm not on form because I'm ill or exhausted myself, I let him watch programmes on my phone or on the Ipad so I can eat my lunch or finish my drink in peace (even, shock horror, in a cafe!), I sit on a bench and ignore him at the playground and I let 5 minutes turn into 15 or 20 minutes when I've given him notice that we're leaving.

If we've survived the day and achieved everything on our "to-do" list, that's a huge win for me, and I couldn't care less if some judgemental randomner thinks I'm a terrible parent because my son had a toddler tantrum in the park.

winterbabythistime a disciplinary?! how utterly ridiculous.

I have no children and am fairly judgy when I see shit parenting, not necessarily when a child is misbehaving. If I see a naughty child that the parent is dealing with, that is great and I'll try and give a supportive smile or something.

Yesterday I walked past a mum (I assume) and 8-10yo boy coming out of a shop. In a really nasty voice she said "Such a fat piece of shit!" and the boy echoed and starting singing/shouting "Fat piece of poo he is!" while she smiled. Oh I judged and judged hard.

I intend to never have kids so my own parenting skills will remain perfect and untested.

@Nevergoingbackthere unprofessionally slagging off clients (assuming nursery worker as op mentioned criticising shoes and is assume teachers don't have time to notice many kids shoes tbh) then yes it should be a disciplinary offence

I usually say I don't have a licence to fly a plane either but if I see one stuck in a tree I know the pilot fucked up.

@Awalkintime. Does that apply literally or metaphorically to children, though? DS is often (literally) stuck in a tree - does that make me a bad parent?

If metaphorically, what is the equivalent for children?

@Awalkintime

I usually say I don't have a licence to fly a plane either but if I see one stuck in a tree I know the pilot fucked up.

Well that's a bit daft....as technically, if a plane is stuck in a tree, it may not be the pilot's fault at all. It may be a fault with the plane itself, a fault with the plane's technical equipment, a fault by the person who last serviced it, or it may have been shot down.

I dont have kids, I dont plan on having any, and I definitely do judge parenting. The whole point of parenting is to shape future adults who know how to become fully functioning, considerate members of society. So do that.

Also dont get the "you dont get it, it's so hard". I absolutely do get it. That's why I dont plan on having them.