To want to know a benefit of brexit?

[Dishwashersaurous]

I know that brexit has been done to death. But as we crash into a no deal and inevitable queues at the border my children are asking what is the benefit of brexit.

Could someone please tell me a tangible benefit that I can tell them- as I am struggling to think of anything

Oopsie

But obviously i think you would be wrong to believe that

TheSunIsStillShining
That is absolutely not what was said and you know it. What was said was the being in the EU means that member countries have to give preferential treatment to other European country people. That’s a fact. That means you are giving preferential treatment to predominantly white people. To say “oh no, that’s just an accident because Europeans happen to be predominantly white, we didn’t mean it, we didn’t intend it, it’s just unfortunate” is utterly disingenuous. Perhaps try educating yourself about the fundamentals of racism and the “if we didn’t mean it, it doesn’t count” excuse.

I can't believe how racist and selfish the Remainers on Mumsnet are

You including the BAME MN Remainers there? Or...not?

I have BAME friends. They all voted leave because they could see how racist and selfish Remainers and the EU are

Well that's the polar opposite of my experience, but there you go.

I know racist people who voted remain and some that voted leave

I think the trope of certain people who voted one way years ago being called racist and stupid is...well, stupid

It gives the racists carte blanche to be more racist and openly so... If you consider that an advantage.

I have BAME friends. They all voted leave because they could see how racist and selfish Remainers and the EU are

HAHAHAHAHAH. GOOD ONE!

Oops posted too soon

And if people dont like being tarred with the same brush (who would) they should stop fucking doing it to others

TheSunIsStillShining

Turkey was denied entry because their economy was not on par with most European counties?? Their GDP
Is 20th in the WORLD!! Their economy is fucking bigger than most other European country and their president democratically elected.
Christ .... delusion is absolute isn’t it .... don’t let mere facts get in the way.

@RandomLondoner

I've spent the past few months of lockdown plotting to buy a yacht. Never stepped on one in my life before, and it will probably never happen, due to other life commitments. But if I do buy it, Brexit could enable me sail it in the EU without paying VAT on it. I'm thinking of making Turkey my base and cruising the Mediterranean, spending 90 days each summer in EU waters. If I were an EU resident, I couldn't take a yacht into EU waters without being handed an 80K VAT bill.

I guess this might be more obscure than OP had hoped for...

(For those now wondering about the intricacies of VAT on yachts, in my plan I couldn't enter UK waters with it, as that would trigger a UK VAT bill. But compared to cruising in Greek islands in summer, UK waters aren't sufficiently attractive that I would pay 80K extra to sail here.)

I have been planning living aboard in Europe with dh and dc however Brexit means we will have to do the Schengan dance

@Noname99

TheSunIsStillShining That is absolutely not what was said and you know it. What was said was the being in the EU means that member countries have to give preferential treatment to other European country people. That’s a fact. That means you are giving preferential treatment to predominantly white people. To say “oh no, that’s just an accident because Europeans happen to be predominantly white, we didn’t mean it, we didn’t intend it, it’s just unfortunate” is utterly disingenuous. Perhaps try educating yourself about the fundamentals of racism and the “if we didn’t mean it, it doesn’t count” excuse.

oh ffs. We are giving preferential treatment to Europeans because we are in Europe. And yes, Europe's population is predominantly white. This is not racism! If a purple person is European then we will give preferential treatment to a purple person. Racism is if we select a white european instead of a purple one who both have the exact same credentials and merit. In Europe selecting a european is perfectly normal.

Diluting the issue of racism and dumbing it down to stupidity actually hurts more than actual racism in some aspects.

@Noname99
economy is not only about GDP and EU membership is only in small part about economy*. It still plays a role, but the key issue with Turkey is not about color, but how they view human rights and how democratic they are. On both counts they fail.
So they might be 20th largest economy, but they still don't meet the other 2x criteria.

• see Greece and eastern europe. the EU is based fundamentally on an aligned common understanding of democracy, human rights and economy views and values. I was simply refuting that the EU doesn't want Turkey because they are too brown. No, they don't want them because their leader/government and structure is undemocratic and is not in line with their values.

EU never stopped the UK from making the visa application process easier. The UK has chosen not to do that.

I take it you haven't done much international recruitment and don't understand the processes. Making the visa process easier is irrelevant. The EU prevented open competition in the job market. Unless a job is on the shortage occupation list, the resident labour market test has to be met before you can employ someone from outside the EEA. So the ease of applying for a visa is mostly of no consequence. I'm no supporter of Brexit, but to me it was fundamentally immoral bring forced to appoint people from a pool based solely on where they came from. And in the world of medical recruitment, not necessarily appointing the best candidate even more so.

I know racist people who voted remain and some that voted leave

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

Know lots of racists, do you...?

To want to know the benefit of this question.
Have they asked why we ever joined the EU?
Tell them to wait and ask again in 40yrs.

@HerFlowersToLove
I actually did int'l recruitment for years. Whenever we didn't find EU candidates we looked to a wider circle.
" the resident labour market test has to be met before you can employ someone from outside the EEA. "
Yes, we did have to go through loops because of this, but at the end of the day if we didn't find a suitable candidate we didn't recruit just based on EU citizenship.
This was not in medical, so I don't know how it works there.
But even there: there is a subjective element of the recruitment surely? And at that point you can decide if the candidate is right fit or not.
I'm interested (really): if you had a doctor candidate form RO but s/he had 10 yrs experience and the other from china had 12 was it mandatory to recruit the EU one? That hardly makes sense....

@Peregrina @ILoveAllRainbowsx The problem with Turkey joining is not about color you utter dimwits.

I suspect I know a good deal more about Turkey's 35 years of trying and failing to join the EEC/EU because of it's appalling human rights behaviour. Did Farage? Clearly some people did fall for his racist talk, or he wouldn't have bothered to front one of the Leave campaigns. Had he really wanted to make the UK more diverse he could have campaigned to e.g allow Commonwealth citizens unfettered access. Many would argue that this is the least they are owed. There was absolutely nothing the EU did to stop this.

The end of European arrest warrants, data access, and full Europol participation and co-operation on security are all benefits if you're a criminal

1. Some people are uncomfortable with politicians from other countries making laws affecting the U.K., politicians that they cannot vote out. The benefit of Brexit is therefore that only British voted politicians will be enacting laws on this country.

1. Some people feel the U.K. labour market has been flooded with EU migrants. This has led to wages in certain jobs eg construction, farm labouring, food production factories going down to the minimum wage. That is a lot of money to some people from those countries, who say live 10 in a house here (cheap expenses) with families back home. Whereas the same wage will get you not very much if you live here already with a family trying to pay rent or mortgage. Some also say these workers will put up with worse conditions and complain less.

1. Some people feel that the EU court of human rights protects people they feel should be protected. Eg that terrorist who Teresa May tried to get out the country for years and the EU court kept blocking the attempt. Some people are very angry about that and want to be able to more easily get out unsavoury characters who came in.

Not saying they are my views but I can understand and respect some of them.

A candidate just has to be appointable if they are from the EEA. So if they meet the person spec and have the relevant qualifications, then 'fit' wouldn't be a good enough reason to turn them down, so if that's happened other than in some specific circumstances, then that would breach the rules, see below:

If a settled worker applies for the job and has all the correct qualifications, experience and skills, you cannot employ a migrant over them, even if the migrant is more qualified.

So yes, 10 years would trump being outside the EEA, as long as the job description didn't require more than 10 years experience. That isn't just in the world of medical recruitment. And that's why the ease (or otherwise, certainly in the case of tier 2!) of the visa system is largely irrelevant.

*should not be protected

It really baffles me when people come onto a thread to moan about it existing. If you think it’s boring, toady, been done to death, just ignore it. It’s not rocket science.

Goady not today.

And of course you'd have had to have already advertised for 28 days (and be able to prove it) if you want a tier 2 visa.

ECHR isn’t an EU institution.

I wonder if there is someone on MN who doesn't live in Europe, so in an autonomous country, who can come and tell us the benefits of where they live. Their country making their own decisions on everything. Sounds normal to me.

The rest of the world manage.