To wonder how people make it to adulthood without knowing

[Staffy1]

That a Christmas tree decoration is called a "bauble", not "ball ball"? Or how they make it through junior school without knowing the difference between "his" and "he's"? What happens in schools these days and don't people ever read anything?

[quote FitterHappierMoreProductive]@ravenmum

I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you mean. Clearly there are people who write “would of / could of” etc when they mean “would have / could have” and don’t realise they are wrong. But the people criticising them on these threads surely have sufficient imagination to realise that “would’ve and could’ve” is the reason for the mistake?! Because the way these threads read, no one ever acknowledges that...[/quote]
I've had this type of discussion before, and honestly, you will get a lot of people complaining about "would of" who argue that anyone pronouncing "would've" and "would of" the same must speak as sloppily as they write!

@Cattenberg

DD often changes words to suit her own (toddler) logic. So baubles are “baw-balls” and marbles are “mar-balls”. My iPad is a “high-pad” and a warthog is a “water hog”.

I’m sure adults do the same, which is why we see “damp squid” instead of “damp squib” and “toe-rag” instead of “tow-rag”.

I would use toe-rag. My understanding is that it is referring to rags that were tied around the toes, hence they would be smelly and unpleasant!

www.spectator.co.uk/article/origins-of-the-toe-rag

Our education system is falling apart. It's taboo to say this though, so standards will continue to decline.

Punkin every Hallowe’en. Samwitches in a packed lunch.

I like Poisoned Carrot though

"Toe-rag", according to the OED, is the only correct spelling, and it meant " A rag wrapped round the foot and worn inside a shoe, in place of a sock". Poor people were then named after the clothing they wore. Both "toe" and "rag" are explained in this etymology.

@Cattenberg

DD often changes words to suit her own (toddler) logic. So baubles are “baw-balls” and marbles are “mar-balls”. My iPad is a “high-pad” and a warthog is a “water hog”.

I’m sure adults do the same, which is why we see “damp squid” instead of “damp squib” and “toe-rag” instead of “tow-rag”.

When dd was in reception she mentioned a girl in the year above, called Abby-girl. Seemed very sensible to me :) she also came back from a trial day at new school and mentioned she'd had Le Bange after her lunch (blancmange :))

Usually it's the kind of person who claims that they don't pronounce "would've" like "would of" that are confused.
Well no. I am confused how someone doesn't realise it's 'have' in a written conversion, rather than verbal one. In the latter you get it, because there is just so many accents and dialects, but in a text?
"She could of done it"
"Yes, she could have."
And more posts with correct form.
"Thanks, I knew she could of done it"
How doesn't it make person think "why is it different?"?

I even saw "I would of have gone...".

@BigCityLife the phrase is poisoned chalice. It basically means being offered a reward which will ultimately cause problems.

I admit I'm chuckling at poisoned carrot though.

@PolPotNoodle

I'm going to use this opportunity to whine yet again about the fact that it's spelled "Bolognese" and NOT "bolognaise". Bolognaise makes me want to rip my skin off.

See also: Spag Bowl

Yes but @PolPotNoodle, the way we Brits tend to pronounce it - bollon-aze- is derived from the French translation ‘a la bolognaise’. See also mayonnaise etc.

If we all said bollon-yeseh than your point would be right. But we don’t.

There is some logic to ‘rest bite’ - I used to see it now and then on a forum for carers of people with dementia.
The poor things were desperate for a ‘bite’ of rest.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

It’s not confusing at all how people end up writing it though, is it? They literally transcribe what they say, and have insufficient education to know that doesn’t look right. There were YEARS when grammar wasn’t taught in English schools, so people wouldn’t necessarily have ever been taught about the function of “have” as part of the verb in a sentence. English is so irregular, think about how “to be” changes through the tenses and person - if you’ve never been taught would you realise that “am” is doing the same job as “is” or is the same verb as “was”? (Would you know what a ver was?!) If you don’t have a grammatical understanding of English, there is literally no reason why someone would realise that “of” couldn’t be used in place of “have” if that’s how it sounds when they say it.

As I said above, it doesn’t take huge imagination to see what’s going wrong.

@Gingerkittykat

Congratulations on putting people down who you think are below you because they say or spell things wrong.

As you're using the adverbial form it should be wrongly not wrong. Sorry, tongue firmly in cheek.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Usually it's the kind of person who claims that they don't pronounce "would've" like "would of" that are confused. Well no. I am confused how someone doesn't realise it's 'have' in a written conversion, rather than verbal one. In the latter you get it, because there is just so many accents and dialects, but in a text? "She could of done it" "Yes, she could have." And more posts with correct form. "Thanks, I knew she could of done it" How doesn't it make person think "why is it different?"?

I even saw "I would of have gone...".

As I say, I have had this discussion before, with someone claiming they did not pronounce "would have" like "would've" and that was why they found it so annoying. They did, in fact, pronounce it the same, but believed they were saying it differently.

I do think your socio economic background has a lot to do with it.

If you aren’t corrected as a child, and grow up hearing a limited Vocabulary and poor grammar, it can be a hard habit to beak.

I rolled my eyes at my moth constantly correcting me a. Child, but I am o glad she did. While I cringe when I hear ‘I have went’ or ‘i done it yesterday’, I understand how ingrained this habit must be.

@FitterHappierMoreProductive

It is confusing. It's right there on a screen. As I said, I get different pronunciation in a verbal communication and that people may draw conclusions from that, but in a written form, it's there. You can see that 50 people wrote "have" when reading their posts. That's hard to miss.

@5zeds

Not everyone is dealt an even hand. I’d rather a poor speller than a smug horror.

Except if the poor speller is a nurse, doctor, lawyer and these are legal documents that need to be accurate and factual.

Ravenmum, it’s also a naval term, spelt that way because it refers to a rope that’s towed behind the ship. I have to admit that a primary school teacher back in the 1970’s told us it was associated with canal barge kids, because they would tow the barges through tunnels where the tow-horse couldn’t get through.
So without explaining the actual, rather more dirty, meaning to a class of 9-year old children, he certainly managed to convey that meaning of it being something to do with towing!
It’s interesting, isn’t it?

@Cam77

'Cowpol'

Probably just her accent. Unless you want RP/estuary insisted on in schools (pitch forks out in 80% of the country) I'm not sure you can pull people up for that stuff.

Toddler referred to the student WRITING it with the incorrect spelling, not pronouncing it badly. No excuse for that, as she would have had the packaging in front of her at the time, or an example nearby.

An ex of mine had a very strong Black Country accent, and he used to spell things the way he pronounced them. I would puzzle over his texts for ages, and have to say them to myself using his accent to understand them.

I rolled my eyes at my moth constantly correcting me

This is the cutest typo here😁 I love that

@Ideasplease322

I do think your socio economic background has a lot to do with it.

If you aren’t corrected as a child, and grow up hearing a limited Vocabulary and poor grammar, it can be a hard habit to beak.

I rolled my eyes at my moth constantly correcting me a. Child, but I am o glad she did. While I cringe when I hear ‘I have went’ or ‘i done it yesterday’, I understand how ingrained this habit must be.

Socio-economic background, and perhaps also the year in which you were born. For example, you seem to have been born in about 1798, judging by the use of caps?

(Yes, I know it's probably autocorrect, but people in glass houses ...)

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

There is some logic to ‘rest bite’ - I used to see it now and then on a forum for carers of people with dementia. The poor things were desperate for a ‘bite’ of rest.

The best one in that stable is someone who referred to having 'dire rear' instead of diarrhoea!

They certainly did!!!!

Oh and curb? Dictionary meaning is to hold back or restrain (hence Curb Your Enthusiasm), also a type of bit for horses, and a type of injury in horses.

not balling. The latter makes me think of someone going for your eyes with a melon baller!

There is another meaning too.

We find it so hard explaining the rules to her and working out what is supposed to go where and especially why. She loves to ask why! And I just don't know.

This

I'm dyslexic too but when things are explained I can understand why and work things out.

Eg, from my school days I was taught that it used to be that you would write, "John, his book' but now we replace 'his' (or hers, or theirs) with 's ie 'John's book'.

One I've used with students

The number 2 is two, 'tw' like twins

to is when you go somewhere, you go to the shop

too is when you try to go to the shop, but you have an annoying younger sibling who is always asking, 'Can I come too?'

On reading:
I worked at a school that had a 'do now', this had to be on the board when the students arrived, they had to come in in silence and do the 'do now' task. The 'do now' could be 5 mins silent reading (equipment check on a morning included checking the student had a book from home or from the library).

5 mins sounds like nothing, but over a day it can add up to 30 mins and that adds up to two and a half hours.

I think the issue that causes annoyance isn't the mistake in the first place, but people's willingness to change and learn from their mistakes.

Several people in this thread have asked what the issue is, and my response to that is where do you draw the line? There are some mistakes that are obvious and are therefore quite easy to understand assuming English is your first language. If it is not your first language, or it's a less common mistake, the communication is more difficult to understand - and that's where the problems start.

The whole point of having a common language is so that we can communicate our points/needs/information as effectively as possible. The further people stray from 'proper English', the more difficult it is. Therefore, we have to try to be as correct as possible, or we'll end up with complete sub-languages.

I have worked as a proofreader, writer and editor since 2012, and have seen some bizarre mistakes in the documents I've worked on. Rather than just correct things for the authors, I explain why they're wrong, and will tell them if it's a common mistake. They usually thank me for this, and some have been amazed at words and phrases they've always used incorrectly.

I am certainly not infallible, either. Until I was about 18, I would say 'seen as' instead of 'seeing as' and, like many other examples in this thread, it's due to the way people speak where I was brought up. You write what you hear, and that's fine. But my dad corrected me on this one, and I was amazed (and quite excited to have learned a new thing, if I'm honest), and I've never made the same mistake again.

That's what it's about.

Quite obviously nobody is having a go at those with obvious learning difficulties like some have commented on. Mere those people who are simply unwilling to take note of the things around them and notice when they've made an error.

There are lots of people with learning difficulties, or dyslexia, or whatever - but there are many, many more who simply cannot be bothered to communicate properly, and that's the annoyance.

It's similar to a thread about being annoyed when people walk dragging their feet, or slouching badly. Yes, there are people who can't help that - but there are lots more who can.

*PS, this hasn't been proofed!

I saw " We were sorry to loose you" on a headstone. I'd have to have that changed if it was the stonemasons fault. It would drive me mad every time I went to the cemetery otherwise.