Really very sad with France!

[Friendsoftheearth]

I am quietly furious with France. We have been going to France between three and four times a year, every year for pretty much all of my adult life. We have spent most summer holidays, skiing and all the rest, choosing France as our destination over all over countries.

Every week I buy French cheeses, wine and truffle oils, and we are very big fans of France and French cuisine.

Even taking into account that Macron should hope and push for the best deal for their fishing industry, I still find it incredulous and insulting that they should be demanding ten years of fish, and are offering us a paltry percentage. Ten years.
They are in a total stand off regarding an even playing field, I understand the reasons for this, but honestly they are pushing all of us to a no deal outcome, that will see French fisherman with no catch whatsoever, and high tariffs slapped on all imports from France. Tourism will be destroyed as people will no longer wish to go there. It could poison relations for decades.

I am aware of the history between the UK and France, but rather naively thought we had moved on from that a very long time ago, I am in despair at the eleventh hour demands, and feel this is in very bad faith. It has really highlighted to me how little respect France have for us as a country.

I feel like I never want to go again, despite having a tentative booking for a holiday in the spring of next year.

How much of the “imported fish” comes from what would be UK waters

How do you define "what would be UK waters"?

@Friendsoftheearth

I have supported France in every way for decades. I am insulted.

Perhaps they feel insulted about Brexit....

@bellinisurge

Did this "democratic majority " vote for No Deal?

Any deal likely to be pretty thin at this point anyway, so your point, which has been beaten to death anyway, hardly matters much any more: twitter.com/raoulruparel?lang=en

Macron and Johnson have similar popularity rankings - about 30-35% approval ratings

Both as bad as each other!

@ILoveAllRainbowsx because it was a divorce. We are trying now to act like cock lodgers.

France are one of the biggest winners from the EU concept. Their own population are fiercely loyal to French brands (you see a LOT of Renault & citroen cars on the roads there) and continue to support them strongly, while the EU allows them to freely trade elsewhere.

They are not stupid. They know that if the UK walk away and are thriving in 5 years time, the EU is likely to crumble, and fast. They want us fucked over completely, and with good reason - if we aren't utterly screwed by this, they will be when it all falls apart.

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

If we need them more than they need us, then why did that get so upset that we left?

Because the EU is crumbling and they are terrified that we might make a go of it. It is essential to them that we are seen to at least have awful struggles or other countries will want to leave also.

Some people really still have no clue about the EU, it's alarming!

Do you really think you paid into a club for years and got nothing in return? Do you really think that a group of 27 countries "need" the UK? They have been putting up with this nonsense for years. It's time it was all over.

In some ways, I really hope the UK gets a no deal and all the consequences. But then I think of all the terrible consequences that people will suffer as a result and I pray they get a deal

Citizen clem - by internationally accepted principals eg United nations convention on the law of the sea 1982.

Cross post!

Yup.

Face palms once again at all those who voted Brexit

Won't stop me going.

I normally drive over to Calais a few times a year for a big French stock up shop. (Carrefour and Flunch for lunch!)

As well as a couple of longer stays further inland.

As soon as I'm allowed I'll be straight over! I've run out of DOP Oeufs shampoo and Frite Sauce! The Languedoc is also dangerously low!

And Waitrose' price for Raclette makes me wince. But I pay it when desperate.

I have read the whole history of this. The issue is that the U.K. was screwed in 1973 on its fishing quotas at the very last minute. Because of that history and the massive skew there is towards France and other EU nations over fish in U.K. waters - it is now very difficult for them to give it up. Norway didn’t join the EU at that time precisely because they didn’t want to be screwed over on fishing. Now they have to adhere by international standards it is a shock because that means relinquishing a lot of the fish. And clearly Macron doesn’t want that. Of course he doesn’t. A lot of his voting base he needs to attract is in northern fishing towns. But the U.K. is right to want the rights to our own waters back. And yes France needs to accept International law.

You may need to rethink your holidays- you’re going to be limited to 90 days unfortunately

Who takes more than 90 days holiday a year?

What a shame that WE SOLD OUR FISHING RIGHTS. Why would you expect someone to just give back something you legally paid for and then blame them for "not acting in good faith "?

Which is exactly what this deal is about - buying them back. Along with many other similar negotiations which will all add up to 'the deal'.

And if you hadn't noticed, negotiations had been making good ground with both sides edging closer to a compromise on the issue until Macron, suddenly realising that an election is coming up, decided go go back to square 1.

@CitizenClem a nations waters are defined clearly in international law

@FixTheBone

Who gives a stuff about fish.

It's the UK government, not France, or the rest of Europe that have created this stalemate on the back of over-representation of lobby groups in this country.

Fishing is small-time in the UK, tiny, we've lost more jobs this week in department stores than if the entire fishing industry disappeared overnight (which it wont), what's more, we export over 70% of our fish, so even if we protect the right to fish our own waters, so unless we are able to protect free trade, excluding foreign fishermen is pointless.

Who gives a stuff about fish?

Many people do, actually. What’s more, it’s not just about fish.

Surely the UK should have full control of its territorial waters and be able to decide for itself the access for boats coming from other countries?

I don't always agree with Friends but she has a point in that Brexit is an economic opportunity for the EU... Finance, car manufacture, science and education... there is a very good chance that the benefits we have had from EU membership will drift away to the continent.

Toyota said yesterday that they would look to leave the UK in the event of no deal, does the OP think that a high unemployment area in S/W france would like to make some Airbus parts?
Macron etc will push hard to get uk manufacturing moved to the EU.

A deal that favours the UK, limits those opportunities.

As for fishing, the UK hasn't the means to police its waters and as said many times, we sold our quota, we ask for it back but they can say Non!

Brexiters - the joke that keeps on giving. English exceptionalism at its finest. Britain is about to get a lesson on it’s true place is in the world.

In 5 years time only 2 industries will thrive in the U.K., financial services and Tech (this is why those two industries have kept relatively quiet compared to their size). Everything else will be bought from abroad online. Fishing is just patriotic noise for now.

And I’ll still go to France on holiday. This cluster fuck is on Brexit voters not France. When will Brexiters own their shit? Despite their increasing desperation to throw blame all over the place, the rest of us won’t forget who is to blame. They weren’t lied to, they wanted to believe what Farage told them.

won't let their pet on the ferry without a special passport

Just watch Brexiter’s heads explode when they find that they’ll need to do that between GB and NI

And I am a remainer and didn’t want to leave at all. But now we are we need to do it properly and not be bound by EU laws. We need a clean break otherwise we as a nation will not be able to now be able to be competitive and go it alone. Of course the EU are shit scared of that because of the U.K. make it work then what does that say about the EU.

@GoldfishParade

For some reason in some circles its always been presented like the EU is some kind of altruistic, NGO-style care bear system, with the selfish money hungry UK on the other side.

Obviously the reality is every country is out to get the best deal for their own citizens. That's what France is doing.

The thing is that failing to get a deal really wouldn't be good for French citizens. Instead of having a proportion of the catch, their fishermen would end up with nothing. The same can be said of many other aspects, a deal is in the best interests of both sides. For Macron to continue to push for unreasonable terms will result in no deal. He thinks that by refusing to compromise and playing the strongman he will be able to invoke the spirit of Joan of Arc at the upcoming elections. He is pursuing his own electoral interests at the expense of the long term interests of his nation.

I am constantly surprised by people that live and work in this country and constantly put it down, will it to fail and don’t recognise that maybe we can make it work. Again said by an optimistic remainer. We now all need to pull together again and help each other.

I think Remainers in the UK underestimate support for leaving the EU in other countries.

As a Remainer who moved to France, I was massively surprised to see how much support there is for Frexit here. Having said that, I live in a poor region that voted Le Pen.

Don't forget that in the last election it was Macron vs Le Pen. That's pretty insane when you think about it, it would be as if in the UK the last election has been Johnson vs Farage.

I've even met people here in this region of France who would otherwise be Guardianista types, one heart surgeon who is very "écolo", middle class, liberal - she still thinks the EU controls too much and that France lost out by taking the Euro.

It's been quite eye opening. I'm sure if you went to a better heeled part of France you would get a different story. I'm just saying the UK has been the only country to offer a referendum on this subject, and I think there would be a few surprises were other countries to do the same (not going to happen!).