Really very sad with France!

[Friendsoftheearth]

I am quietly furious with France. We have been going to France between three and four times a year, every year for pretty much all of my adult life. We have spent most summer holidays, skiing and all the rest, choosing France as our destination over all over countries.

Every week I buy French cheeses, wine and truffle oils, and we are very big fans of France and French cuisine.

Even taking into account that Macron should hope and push for the best deal for their fishing industry, I still find it incredulous and insulting that they should be demanding ten years of fish, and are offering us a paltry percentage. Ten years.
They are in a total stand off regarding an even playing field, I understand the reasons for this, but honestly they are pushing all of us to a no deal outcome, that will see French fisherman with no catch whatsoever, and high tariffs slapped on all imports from France. Tourism will be destroyed as people will no longer wish to go there. It could poison relations for decades.

I am aware of the history between the UK and France, but rather naively thought we had moved on from that a very long time ago, I am in despair at the eleventh hour demands, and feel this is in very bad faith. It has really highlighted to me how little respect France have for us as a country.

I feel like I never want to go again, despite having a tentative booking for a holiday in the spring of next year.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland
@Nc135

Are you able then to explain what this would mean? Any maps?

Do you really think you paid into a club for years and got nothing in return?

I can see how a lot of people in the south east of England feel that way. As a more affluent area they see few of the types of projects funded by the EU in other parts of the UK. I say that as someone who divides their time between NI and London suburbs with family in the south east who I visit often. Lots of projects, buildings, facilities in NI marked up to show EU projects, fewer in London and SE.

EU funding is given because these areas are less affluent than the SE generally. When EU funding stops, Westminster will have to pay and I can see the cycle starting again, leading to, at best, federalisation, and at worst, the total collapse of the UK into six separate countries.

@Tellmetruth4

Brexiters - the joke that keeps on giving. English exceptionalism at its finest. Britain is about to get a lesson on it’s true place is in the world.

In 5 years time only 2 industries will thrive in the U.K., financial services and Tech (this is why those two industries have kept relatively quiet compared to their size). Everything else will be bought from abroad online. Fishing is just patriotic noise for now.

And I’ll still go to France on holiday. This cluster fuck is on Brexit voters not France. When will Brexiters own their shit? Despite their increasing desperation to throw blame all over the place, the rest of us won’t forget who is to blame. They weren’t lied to, they wanted to believe what Farage told them.

Brexiters

Those who won the democratic vote! 😂

We mostly import cod which is Norway I think so quite a long distance away

The deal and negotiations aren't just stuck on the issue of fishing - although that is what the media are highlighting because it strikes a chord with Brexit voters.
The other 2 areas are what the media euphamistically call 'competitiveness' - what this is in reality is the UK wants to be able to remove environmental protection and worker protection so that we can undercut the EU. Our government want to remove remove environmental and worker protections so someone can make money. These are the things that you should really be worried about.
Do you really want the protection of the environment to be reduced?
Do you really want the rights of workers to be reduced?

The proof will be in the pudding. I think there’ll be hiccups for the UK but it will find its feet and carry on quietly with its own business but perfectly fine. There will be aspects of the EU that the UK misses, but I think it will become apparent that to leave was ultimately the best decision for the UK.

I think the EU will be ok initially but then moving forward will miss the huge financial contribution that the UK provided. Say what you like about the UK, but it’s one of the richest countries in the world and that will be a miss to the EU purse strings.

Some will disagree and that’s fair enough but to try to pretend the UK isn’t important to the EU is bonkers.

Who takes more than 90 days holiday a year?

People who own holiday homes in EU countries? People who spend the winter months in EU countries because it’s warmer and relatively cheap?

@MrsMiaWallis
Europeans and the EU are not the same thing. We are still European.

THANK YOU

Drives me freaking nuts when I hear people say " When we leave Europe" " the Europeans" I have been known to say to strangers " There is not a separate continent maned Great Britain we will REMAIN in Europe" and I have had SO many say " no we voted to leave doh" "err No you voted to leave the EU"

Don't even get me started on " over in Europe"

Fun fact 23 European countries are not a member of the EU

Our government want to remove remove environmental and worker protections

This is not true.

We manufacture products and have to now be accredited with the new standards rather than the EU ones. They are just as stringent.

Surely the UK should have full control of its territorial waters and be able to decide for itself the access for boats coming from other countries?

UK fishermen catch Scallop off the coast of Normandy, in agreements made long before the EU existed.

Do you think France should ban UK boats now and catch these Scallops themselves to sell to the uk instead?

named not maned (I blame dh who walked in on me typing )

I wish that were true Tables but it’s already been proven wrong with problems for import for small companies, and large companies moving operations out of London. We have already lost more than we will gain.

Well the French people didn't vote for Brexit, we did. We're getting what we voted for, I blame Leave voters.

As in any marriage, you share your joint assets, but now we are divorcing we get them back.
The is no court who would dispute this claim.
Perhaps even Remainer MP's now see they should have spent the last four years getting the best deal instead of reversing a deal.

Out of curiosity if Brexit triggers the break up of the U.K. what percentage of U.K. fishing rights would go to an independent Scotland and a United Ireland?

Still, we will have out beloved sovereignty. Makes it all worthwhile.

@Inniu that will be clearly stated in international law

@TriflePudding

Something that you always see on these threads is the inevitable posters who come on to say “we left the EU so we deserve to be left high and dry, I don’t blame the EU for shafting the UK” but these posters completely lack the self awareness to realise that what they are saying is - “if you don’t think the way that I do or have the same values as me then you deserve to be shafted over” That kind of thinking is never going to end well.

I've seen some non-sequiturs in my time, but that may be the most perfect example.

Macron is only doing what every national leader should do - putting his country first.

If only Cameron had done the same, this wouldn't be happening, but he chose to put the interests of his party above those of the country and held the fucking stupid referendum.

Save your ire for him, all his Tory cronies, and for the 52% who voted to leave. They're the ones to blame, they were warned that this would be a disaster, and Johnson et al have guaranteed that by their utter uselessness.

@raskolnikova

I haven't RTFT but more than one person on the first page said that the UK is acting in the UK'S best interests, and I'm just baffled as to how anyone could believe that. The UK government seems to be actively destroying the UK's best interests.

It's nearly as baffling as the fact that 35% of voters think the OP is being reasonable, that is just astounding. BTW yes, you are right, the govt is destroying the UK.

Something that you always see on these threads is the inevitable posters who come on to say “we left the EU so we deserve to be left high and dry, I don’t blame the EU for shafting the UK” but these posters completely lack the self awareness to realise that what they are saying is - “if you don’t think the way that I do or have the same values as me then you deserve to be shafted over” That kind of thinking is never going to end well.

No, you're missing the point. Nobody is saying that you deserve to get shafted because you don't share their values.

The EU's duty is to its members. We have chosen to opt out of that membership, so they no longer have a duty to balance our interests with those of the other members. The onus is not on the EU to protect us from the consequences of our choices. As a nation, we have decided that we would prefer to go it alone.

Those of us who did not want Brexit warned that there would be consequences. Those who voted for Brexit chose to accept those consequences, presumably because they felt that whatever benefits they expected to get from Brexit would be worth the price that we would pay.

To be clear, nobody is saying that you deserve the consequences because you had the temerity to disagree with us, we are merely saying that people chose these consequences when they decided to cast their votes for leave.

Surely people did not believe that we could leave the EU while retaining all of the benefits of membership?

@mummmy2017

As in any marriage, you share your joint assets, but now we are divorcing we get them back. The is no court who would dispute this claim. Perhaps even Remainer MP's now see they should have spent the last four years getting the best deal instead of reversing a deal.

You don't get your assets back if you have sold them. There is no court that would dispute that.

How on earth could Remainer MPs "get the best deal"? Unsurprisingly, they weren't invited to the negotiating table.

@TableFlowerss

The proof will be in the pudding. I think there’ll be hiccups for the UK but it will find its feet and carry on quietly with its own business but perfectly fine. There will be aspects of the EU that the UK misses, but I think it will become apparent that to leave was ultimately the best decision for the UK.

I think the EU will be ok initially but then moving forward will miss the huge financial contribution that the UK provided. Say what you like about the UK, but it’s one of the richest countries in the world and that will be a miss to the EU purse strings.

Some will disagree and that’s fair enough but to try to pretend the UK isn’t important to the EU is bonkers.

I think you're in for a massive shock.

@ghostyslovesheets

Basically the Uk got up and told the EU it would be better off alone (although the EU suspected a third party was involved (US)) EU agreed to a divorce and now the UK is turning up demanding sex and it’s ironing done - EU needs to LTB once and for all.