Really very sad with France!

[Friendsoftheearth]

I am quietly furious with France. We have been going to France between three and four times a year, every year for pretty much all of my adult life. We have spent most summer holidays, skiing and all the rest, choosing France as our destination over all over countries.

Every week I buy French cheeses, wine and truffle oils, and we are very big fans of France and French cuisine.

Even taking into account that Macron should hope and push for the best deal for their fishing industry, I still find it incredulous and insulting that they should be demanding ten years of fish, and are offering us a paltry percentage. Ten years.
They are in a total stand off regarding an even playing field, I understand the reasons for this, but honestly they are pushing all of us to a no deal outcome, that will see French fisherman with no catch whatsoever, and high tariffs slapped on all imports from France. Tourism will be destroyed as people will no longer wish to go there. It could poison relations for decades.

I am aware of the history between the UK and France, but rather naively thought we had moved on from that a very long time ago, I am in despair at the eleventh hour demands, and feel this is in very bad faith. It has really highlighted to me how little respect France have for us as a country.

I feel like I never want to go again, despite having a tentative booking for a holiday in the spring of next year.

No it isn't. It's the 2020 version of the Suez Canal crisis. Google it

@wellthatsunusual perhaps we should start using Albion......

Brexit is not the British equivalent of the French Revolution! What a laugh this thread is

But the French were involved with Suez too..

I think myself in 100 years time Suez in 1956 and the Referendum in 2016 will be listed as the key period when the British Empire finally crumbled.

Even though there are people on this thread talking about new relationships with Australia and New Zealand.

@Peregrina

As a staunch Remainer, I think the Remain side didn't put the case forcefully - but even the positive things like the Good Friday Agreement were glossed over. And you need to admit, that significant numbers in England neither know nor care about N Ireland. Indeed some posters on these threads seemed to be unaware that it was part of the UK.

I think this.

I was making the point back before the ref.

I personally talked a lot about Northern Ireland. There was an awful lot of dismissal going on... There were plenty who did know NI was part of the country were happy to throw NI under the bus (pun intended) as it was a nuisance to them.

It was wilful deliberate ignoring the subject because it was difficult for Leave. But Remain didn't exactly make it a key issue either when they should have.

Most of the angst over the last 4 years has been down to the issues with NI.

This isn't a new revelation...

The Suez crisis brought down a Prime Minister................

@NoMeatIsHumane

I've got an idea. Let's leave all the fish alone. Sorted.

Actually that's not a bad idea.

France and England (not UK) have a very long history of antagonism going back more than 1000 years. This has been exacerbated by France's continuing shame over its collaboration in WW2 and particularly by De Gaulle's humiliation and embarrassment at his indebtedness to Britain for succour and support at that time. De Gaulle consequently did a lot to further sour relations between France and GB

Thats hardly fair is it? Parts of france fell under Vichy control but what choice did they have? The nazis's did terrible to things to the french who did not cooperate or were seen to oppose, whole places destroyed, populations executed or sent to death camps.
V easy to criticise from the safety of your armchair.

The french resisted where they could or fled to Britain, many then went onto to fight for the the UK.

From the french POV, Dunkirk was a betrayal, leaving france to the nazi's, but again unfair.

Perhaps De Gaulle was right about the UK and the EEC though - time will tell......
'England is insular,' he said firmly, basically suggesting that the UK’s 'maritime”' culture as an island nation meant it wasn’t REALLY European and would never fit properly into the great European project

I like The Simpsons' description of the French

Don't blame France - blame the fuckwitted Tories and their narcissist in chief. What did you THINK would happen when one country decides to leave a large trading block?

Even though there are people on this thread talking about new relationships with Australia and New Zealand.

Well, not New Zealanders and Australians, I notice ....

Brexit is the British version of the French Revolution.

I'd love to know more about this natty analogy...

France and England (not UK) have a very long history of antagonism going back more than 1000 years. This has been exacerbated by France's continuing shame over its collaboration in WW2 and particularly by De Gaulle's humiliation and embarrassment at his indebtedness to Britain for succour and support at that time. De Gaulle consequently did a lot to further sour relations between France and GB

Do they still put flowers in the bullet holes around Paris where the Nazis shot resistance fighters ?

We left the EU so that a tiny percentage could make a heap from currency speculation, and so that a few big EU based British companies could continue their tax avoidance schemes, which the EU had vowed to clamp down on.

For the 99.9% of the British populace who are not directly profiting from either of the above, there are no upsides in sight for the next several decades - but many, many downsides.

@AuldAlliance

Brexit is the British version of the French Revolution.

I'd love to know more about this natty analogy...

Same trousers ?

@Peregrina

As a staunch Remainer, I think the Remain side didn't put the case forcefully - but even the positive things like the Good Friday Agreement were glossed over. And you need to admit, that significant numbers in England neither know nor care about N Ireland. Indeed some posters on these threads seemed to be unaware that it was part of the UK.

I thought Remain did as well as they could in trying to make the argument in the face of Project Fear and Doom mongering.

IMHO where they failed was not having a charismatic figurehead, in the mold of a BJ or even a Farage.

They had no one to capture the imagination and win the debate.

For all his ill's BJ could deliver a very good speech, that rallied the troops (well he could back then) had he thought remain was his path to No10 he would have stuck to his promise and backed Cameron.

By the time the referendum had been announced it was already too late for the Remain side to put a case for staying.

I would say a lot of the people who voted for leaving had already made up their minds.
It was a way to have a voice in how they felt they had been ignored.

Things like building factories in deprived areas and then advertising the jobs in Polish or other stunts.
Saying that millions of EU money was spent in a certain area. When you look at where the money had been spent it completely missed the mark in helping the areas residents

I remember a woman on her doorstep complaining to a reporter that the £x spent in the area had been on a statue of a dragon.
Nice statue, but it didn’t put any money into getting the long term unemployed back to work or anything else that may have been of practical use.

I think David Cameron went into the referendum thinking he had Remain in the bag
Project Fear was preaching to the middle classes instead of looking at the poorer people in the country and looking at what the EU was doing for them.
Saying house prices would go down and holiday prices would go up to a person who can afford neither a house or a holiday was a ridiculous way to try and convince REMAIN was the right way to go.

If they had spelt out eg the loss of scientific education and financial support for science and education, the potential problem on the NI/Eire border, the fishing issue and implications for rights for workers and the environment, the vote may have gone otherwise

We did everything except tattoo it across your dimwitted faces. It was spelt out over and over and over again but you didn't listen.

And yes, fuck the fuck off with "Eire" . Learn the fucking name of country or don't comment at all.

If, in some magical fairyland, Bojo the Clown could cancel Brexit entirely tomorrow - WITHOUT receiving any blame - he would of course do it in a heartbeat. He was pretty much the biggest proponent of this farce remember.

This is either a joke post OP - or you are a sort of caricature of a Tory voter. You’ve been hoodwinked.

Unfortunately most people (on all sides) don't understand economics and things such as tariffs, GDP, free trade etc. That's not calling people stupid or anything. It's just the economic literacy in this country is low.

So it was relatively easy to sell Brexit and to gloss over the economic impact because many people wouldn't get it.

It's why some politicians are stating that tariffs will be paid by countries where the imports come from.

It's why some people don't get the relative size of the fishing industry compared to other industries.

It's too much effort for some people to think about so they go with the person who persuaded them best using 3 word slogans.

*vous pouvez tous allez vous faire foutre,"

Is the kind of French they should teach on Duolingo!

Hmm...the pedant in me disagrees.

I remember a woman on her doorstep complaining to a reporter that the £x spent in the area had been on a statue of a dragon.

Maybe, but the EU didn't send a posse to erect the statue. It will have been done with local politicians deciding that this was what they wanted to spend the money on. Her answer to that should have been to get more involved in local politics and try to influence the results.

Project Fear was preaching to the middle classes instead of looking at the poorer people in the country and looking at what the EU was doing for them.

Some truth in that but Cameron could hardly have said "You know what, this austerity lark is nothing to do with the EU. It's me and my chum Osborn starving your area of cash.", now could he?

Amazing how some chumps on here have a loooooong memory when it comes to France and no memory at all about Ireland.

@DGRossetti

Even though there are people on this thread talking about new relationships with Australia and New Zealand.

Well, not New Zealanders and Australians, I notice ....

Australia and NZ are not that keen. The idea of CANZUK has been around for a while, I believe it's Daniel Hannan's pet project. Oh. I just saw he's on the board of trade along with Tony Abbott. How revolting.